Europe: In or Out

The Rivet · Feb 3, 2016

Hampster Gull said:
Why do you associate left wing with the EU and right wing with out? Very odd. Take a pill

Ok what would you suggest druggie?

Lincoln Imp · Feb 3, 2016

The Rivet said:
I have noticed the 'leftie pro EU' are beginning to use ridiculous hypocritical arguments or abuse now. Scare tactics? More like pathetic attention seeking toddler behaviour.

Actually, whatever the virtues of the various opinions I'd have said that pretty much the opposite is true. Most of the heat and noise in this thread has come from the Out camp and epithets such as plonker and EU tw@ts have been flung freely around whilst, quietly in the background, more posters have voted In than Out before, I assume, leaving the room and carrying on with their lives.

The Rivet · Feb 3, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
Actually, whatever the virtues of the various opinions I'd have said that pretty much the opposite is true. Most of the heat and noise in this thread has come from the Out camp and epithets such as plonker and EU tw@ts have been flung freely around whilst, quietly in the background, more posters have voted In than Out before, I assume, leaving the room and carrying on with their lives.

Are you a little upset?

I have decided to edit this. Many 'out' campaigners have been labelled racist, xenophobic, fascist and worse. For years.

5ways · Feb 3, 2016

Bevendean Hillbilly said:
l

Theresa May is only backing IN because the only wins we have negotiated are her foreign criminal rules and deportation veto. She is the only Tory who has got 100% of what she wanted.

Hague is angling for an elder statesman legacy.

Sure, a sign of successful negotiation and concerns addressed then.

The Rivet · Feb 3, 2016

5ways said:
Sure, a sign of successful negotiation and concerns addressed then.

5ways · Feb 3, 2016

On right-wingers

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/JananGanesh/status/695016199940411392[/TWEET]
https://twitter.com/JananGanesh/status/695016199940411392

GT49er · Feb 4, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
Actually, whatever the virtues of the various opinions I'd have said that pretty much the opposite is true. Most of the heat and noise in this thread has come from the Out camp and epithets such as plonker and EU tw@ts have been flung freely around whilst, quietly in the background, more posters have voted In than Out before, I assume, leaving the room and carrying on with their lives.

I think your prejudice is showing. Go back and read all 500 threads PROPERLY, without trying to slant them to your prejudices.

GT49er · Feb 4, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
...............whilst, quietly in the background, more posters have voted In than Out before, I assume, leaving the room and carrying on with their lives.

Or perhaps, like shy tories in the pre-election polls, they prefer not to admit publicly that they are the sheep who will follow the 'Oooh, don't change anything' line that the 'Ins' want us to vote for (Cameron's 'changes' being nothing more than some and mirrors, which no-one (apart from dodgy Dave himself) is trying to deny).

pastafarian · Feb 4, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
Actually, whatever the virtues of the various opinions I'd have said that pretty much the opposite is true. Most of the heat and noise in this thread has come from the Out camp and epithets such as plonker and EU tw@ts have been flung freely around whilst, quietly in the background, more posters have voted In than Out before, I assume, leaving the room and carrying on with their lives.

the vast majority of the debate has i agree come from the outers

The IN camp seem unwilling in any significant number to promote why they are voting in.......its as though they know their arguments do not stand up to scrutiny

Herr Tubthumper · Feb 4, 2016

Chief Wiggum said:
I find myself torn here as I have lived in France with my English wife and kids for the last 15 years (though in that time I was working in the UK and commuting, until my retirement in 2014). It would obviously be in my personal interests to vote IN, but as a British citizen, I do feel that Britain is more than capable, after the initial difficulty of extracting herself from the EU, of excelling on her own. The EU needs the UK more than Britain needs the EU. The British are a resourceful and dynamic nation and if we leave, it may just be the beginning of a positive new period in British history. Heart says OUT head (due to my personal circumstances) says IN so I guess I am still on the fence at this time.

We are currently applying for duel nationality. The paperwork is insane, but it may well be the best insurance policy I've ever taken out. If we get both passports then I would go for the OUT vote as I believe it would be better for the UK long term

I think you should vote for what you believe in, not your personal circumstances.

Herr Tubthumper · Feb 4, 2016

Lincoln Imp said:
So in a nutshell, your strategy is to get yourself an EU passport, carry on living in the EU and then vote for the UK to bugger off?

In a word, selfish.

Blue Valkyrie · Feb 4, 2016

pastafarian said:
the vast majority of the debate has i agree come from the outers

The IN camp seem unwilling in any significant number to promote why they are voting in.......its as though they know their arguments do not stand up to scrutiny

No, it's just NSC has large amount of loud, aggressive, shouty and inflexible UKIP-ism. There is little joy to be had in arguing with it.

pastafarian · Feb 4, 2016

Blue Valkyrie said:
No, it's just NSC has large amount of loud, aggressive, shouty and inflexible UKIP-ism. There is little joy to be had in arguing with it.

fair enough but are not the In brigade inflexible as well ?
i think both campaigns will be targeting the inbetweeners and not us who are already committed from both sides

Blue Valkyrie · Feb 4, 2016

pastafarian said:
fair enough but are not the In brigade inflexible as well ?
i think both campaigns will be targeting the inbetweeners and not us who are already committed from both sides

Of course it is better to target people who are undecided, that will surely be more successful. My point really was a sort of extension of this in that there is little joy to be found in arguing with UKIP Stand Chat.

pastafarian · Feb 4, 2016

Blue Valkyrie said:
Of course it is better to target people who are undecided, that will surely be more successful. My point really was a sort of extension of this in that there is little joy to be found in arguing with UKIP Stand Chat.

there is no joy with arguing with UKIP stand chat because you cant defeat common sense
take that with a small or very large pinch of salt.....your choice

Herr Tubthumper · Feb 4, 2016

pastafarian said:
The IN camp seem unwilling in any significant number to promote why they are voting in.......its as though they know their arguments do not stand up to scrutiny

And all the OUT camp seem to say is the UK can go it alone and negotiate its own agreements and be like Norway and Switzerland??

Herr Tubthumper · Feb 4, 2016

Blue Valkyrie said:
No, it's just NSC has large amount of loud, aggressive, shouty and inflexible UKIP-ism. There is little joy to be had in arguing with it.

This

pastafarian · Feb 4, 2016

Herr Tubthumper said:
And all the OUT camp seem to say is the UK can go it alone and negotiate its own agreements and be like Norway and Switzerland??

You have said before the EU needs reforming

so what parts do you feel need reforming?i have asked you this before with no rerply ,perhaps you just missed it

Deleted member 22389 · Feb 4, 2016

pastafarian said:
there is no joy with arguing with UKIP stand chat because you cant defeat common sense
take that with a small or very large pinch of salt.....your choice

Excellent post.

Herr Tubthumper · Feb 4, 2016

pastafarian said:
the vast majority of the debate has i agree come from the outers

The IN camp seem unwilling in any significant number to promote why they are voting in.......its as though they know their arguments do not stand up to scrutiny

This is rubbish. I have mentioned workers and consumer rights many many times. Whether you choose to listen or not is a different matter. I have previously mentioned working hours and T&Cs, the EU taking on the mobile phone companies who were acting as a Cartel and ripping us off, airlines who were refusing to compensate for delays, the EU funds research into areas which business will not touch like epilepsy in children, they stipulate minimum requirements for passengers on trains. Small businesses and dealing in Europe is made piss easy Etc etc. They now seem to be looking at Google and the cosy arrangement they have with the HMRC and George Osborne. These are all examples where individual governments have totally failed the public because of a lack of will and/or ability to make any impact. I could go on. It ain't always perfect but for striking a balance between commerce and Joe Public it's a darn sight better than anything else.

The UK, on its own, simply cannot undertake the majority of the benefits the EU provides the public with.

Also. The very thought of Cameron losing this referendum, the more right wing element of the Tory party becoming emboldened, and the subsequent consequences for the erosion of rank and file workers rights worries me greatly.

I've made these points before. But they get drowned out by the nonsense you and many others spout. I think I'm done with this thread.

.

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