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[News] Post Office Scandal -



beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,315
Greg Bobkin said:
Yeah, but what/who are they protecting? Crozier left there seven years ago.
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the problems and prosecutions lastest from 1999 to ~2015. in the earlier phase Post Office was still part of Royal Mail. there's quite a lot of arse covering and mud slinging now its more public, with the media and politicans piling in without a second thought. we'll get a sacrifical lamb and next by month bearly hear of it again.
 




Boroseagull

Boroseagull

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2003
2,063
Alhaurin de la Torre
Reading the complete time line of the scandal ( The Times last Saturday) it takes the start of the problem right back to Tony Blair in 1999 when he was first warned by Harriet Harman that the system was unreliable. This was backed up by 2 more memos warning him that 146 faults with the system had not been sorted. However he gave the 'green light' for the system to be installed.
 


Igzilla

Igzilla

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2012
1,646
Worthing
Boroseagull said:
Reading the complete time line of the scandal ( The Times last Saturday) it takes the start of the problem right back to Tony Blair in 1999 when he was first warned by Harriet Harman that the system was unreliable. This was backed up by 2 more memos warning him that 146 faults with the system had not been sorted. However he gave the 'green light' for the system to be installed.
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From what I read, by 1999, the Post office had already spent around £700m on the software (work started late 1995 after Peter Lilley kicked it off). Prosecutions had already started by the time Labour came into power from the earlier version of the system. I think Blair gave to go ahead because of all the public money spent so far and the Post Office lying about the system being robust. I don't think any political party comes out of it looking particularly good. Labour for pressing the 'carry on' button when they could have stopped it, Lib Dems for not acting when in government and the Tories for failing to act as per all the others and in fact giving Venalls a CBE for her sterling work.
 




M

METALMICKY

Well-known member
Jan 30, 2004
6,084
DJ Chi said:
My job is in statistics and probability, and the idea that 700+ independent postmasters would go rogue and start stealing is just so unlikely statistically that it should have raised suspicions elsewhere immediately
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For anyone like me who up till now had not followed this story surely this is the most question? Have the post office management ever answered that? You can appreciate that on the employee side one post master might not know about the other 699 cases but the management pursuing them would. It seems inexplicable.
 






clapham_gull

clapham_gull

Legacy Fan
Aug 20, 2003
25,339
Eeyore said:
On this rare occasion, despite his usual toxic intent, Farage is correct. The DPP can intervene in private prosecutions if it deems there to be any problems with them.

No stone should be spared here. The DPP does need to be asked about what it knew.
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It doesn't take long to google the fact that (as Thunder Bolt says) that it needs to be referred to the DPP first. They don't just wade in.

Farage is talking shit.
 


Publius Ovidius

Publius Ovidius

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
46,048
at home
Greg Bobkin said:
Yeah, but what/who are they protecting? Crozier left there seven years ago.
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But he must have known about it when he was employed by ITV, so they may have decided not to mention him in case it reflected badly on their recruitment policies and vetting. Of course that is pure speculation but there are so many strange things going on, with so many people culpable.


and NO PO managers, directors, etc have faced any prosecutions!
 




Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
64,089
Withdean area
Igzilla said:
From what I read, by 1999, the Post office had already spent around £700m on the software (work started late 1995 after Peter Lilley kicked it off). Prosecutions had already started by the time Labour came into power from the earlier version of the system. I think Blair gave to go ahead because of all the public money spent so far and the Post Office lying about the system being robust. I don't think any political party comes out of it looking particularly good. Labour for pressing the 'carry on' button when they could have stopped it, Lib Dems for not acting when in government and the Tories for failing to act as per all the others and in fact giving Venalls a CBE for her sterling work.
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This. It’s not party political, as much as some might like to try and fail to manipulate us.
 




Talby

Talby

Active member
Dec 24, 2023
129
Thunder Bolt said:
Nigel Farage doing his usual job of sowing poison by deliberately lying about prosecutions.



PS, if anyone isn't aware, the Post Office is nothing to do with the CPS, but has prosecuted its own since it started in 1660.
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He clearly missed the bit about PRIVATE prosecutions. Man’s an idiot. Victim, investigator and prosecutor…the PO controlled everyone and everything.
 




A1X

A1X

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
17,873
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Weststander said:
This. It’s not party political, as much as some might like to try and fail to manipulate us.
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It’s also not just a failure of politicians of all hues, but also of the media. They happily went along with the “evil sub-postmasters stealing from old ladies” narrative and never bothered to dig any deeper despite the rumblings, especially at the start. Any news organisation which had done any digging could have unearthed a goldmine and bought this out into the open years earlier than it was, but they couldn’t be bothered*.

Other than the sub-postmasters themselves, no institution involved in perpetrating, covering up or ignoring this can feel anything other than deep, deep shame.

*Honourable exception to Private Eye and, perhaps more surprisingly, Computer Weekly
 


Talby

Talby

Active member
Dec 24, 2023
129
beorhthelm said:
the problems and prosecutions lastest from 1999 to ~2015. in the earlier phase Post Office was still part of Royal Mail. there's quite a lot of arse covering and mud slinging now its more public, with the media and politicans piling in without a second thought. we'll get a sacrifical lamb and next by month bearly hear of it again.
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It’s not on one person, or two. I think that’ll be farcical after 20 years.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,315
Talby said:
It’s not on one person, or two. I think that’ll be farcical after 20 years.
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it shouldn't be, but the public like a good witch hunt...

Seagull said:
The petitions are going through the roof! Keep piling in.

The CEO and her CBE https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/strip-paula-vennells-of-her-cbe

Compensation etc. https://www.change.org/p/biztradegovuk-post-office-scandal-full-compensation-and-accountability
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currently 3:1 punishment over compenstation.
 




Arkwright

Arkwright

Arkwright
Oct 26, 2010
2,793
Caterham, Surrey
My wife and I ran two Post Offices during this period of time. Luckily we weren't hindered by the problems with Horizon. I won't go into too many details but I was aware of issues, a local office to me had balancing issues and made it known to a few branches, they we encouraged by other Sub Post Masters to close the branch until they had an audit, to my knowledge they didn't until the PO closed the branch and took them to court. I sort of understand why they carried on as I think we all had a sense of community and loyalty to our customers.
My opinion of the Post Office was always management had no respect for counter staff, any issues were always the branches responsibility with little to no assistance or back up. Head Office staff continuously lied to employees about working procedures and employment contracts.
Nothing was geared to staff who were customer facing and you could argue making the money.
It wasn't easy and we were always under the threat of closure. Glad we are out of it all, we were fortunate to sell our business which included the Post Office branches, however I am aware the new owners have had hours cut and are under the threat of closure which ultimately would probably close the village shop.
 


Boroseagull

Boroseagull

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2003
2,063
Alhaurin de la Torre
A1X said:
It’s also not just a failure of politicians of all hues, but also of the media. They happily went along with the “evil sub-postmasters stealing from old ladies” narrative and never bothered to dig any deeper despite the rumblings, especially at the start. Any news organisation which had done any digging could have unearthed a goldmine and bought this out into the open years earlier than it was, but they couldn’t be bothered*.

Other than the sub-postmasters themselves, no institution involved in perpetrating, covering up or ignoring this can feel anything other than deep, deep shame.

*Honourable exception to Private Eye and, perhaps more surprisingly, Computer Weekly
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Both the BBC and The Daily Mail started highlighting the story from 2012. The beeb as the only TV/radio station to run it and the maligned DM the only newspaper. It was around this time that I started following the tragic story.

'Mounting pressure from politicians and media, including the BBC and Daily Mail from 2012 and 2013 respectively, led the Post Office to bring in independent investigators from a firm called Second Sight to assess branch accounts, and a “mediation scheme” was set up'.
 


Easy 10

Easy 10

Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Jul 5, 2003
61,775
Location Location
METALMICKY said:
For anyone like me who up till now had not followed this story surely this is the most question? Have the post office management ever answered that? You can appreciate that on the employee side one post master might not know about the other 699 cases but the management pursuing them would. It seems inexplicable.
Click to expand...
Very much this.

The notion that hundreds of sub-postmasters, who had been doing the job for years and years, many of whom were pillars of their local communities, would suddenly turn into THIEVES following the introduction of a new IT system is an absolute nonsense.

Sadly its not inexplicable. It turned into an arse-covering exercise from senior management, Directors and the establishment to shift the blame from their own rank incompetence to the "little people" who had no voice.

It has classic hallmarks of Hillsborough. Heads need to roll over this. Its (frankly) astonishing that after all this time, its taken an ITV drama to get the spotlight on it to get the ball moving again.

I sincerely hope the filth at the top of this scandal are shifting more uncomfortably right now than a dog with worms.
 


Weststander

Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
64,089
Withdean area
A1X said:
It’s also not just a failure of politicians of all hues, but also of the media. They happily went along with the “evil sub-postmasters stealing from old ladies” narrative and never bothered to dig any deeper despite the rumblings, especially at the start. Any news organisation which had done any digging could have unearthed a goldmine and bought this out into the open years earlier than it was, but they couldn’t be bothered*.

Other than the sub-postmasters themselves, no institution involved in perpetrating, covering up or ignoring this can feel anything other than deep, deep shame.

*Honourable exception to Private Eye and, perhaps more surprisingly, Computer Weekly
Click to expand...

I don’t read Private Eye but was always very aware of this. From the beginning it stank of a huge miscarriage, these were intelligent, respected folk, shellshocked, explaining to the media their innocence. In big numbers. Due legal process and all that, but it was obvious they were innocent. Suicides and premature deaths due to ill health followed.

I hope this all gets sorted for them within months. Generous compensation, convictions quashed, Royal Mail heads (not just Pennell) to face their own justice.
 






Talby

Talby

Active member
Dec 24, 2023
129
A1X said:
It’s also not just a failure of politicians of all hues, but also of the media. They happily went along with the “evil sub-postmasters stealing from old ladies” narrative and never bothered to dig any deeper despite the rumblings, especially at the start. Any news organisation which had done any digging could have unearthed a goldmine and bought this out into the open years earlier than it was, but they couldn’t be bothered*.

Other than the sub-postmasters themselves, no institution involved in perpetrating, covering up or ignoring this can feel anything other than deep, deep shame.

*Honourable exception to Private Eye and, perhaps more surprisingly, Computer Weekly
Click to expand...
Took
beorhthelm said:
it shouldn't be, but the public like a good witch hunt...


currently 3:1 punishment over compenstation.
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TOO RIGHT! This is a shocking situation though, it needs meaningful process.
 


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