And yet ANOTHER strike ....

[wellquickwoody]

Yes, " Lucky to have a Job " marvellous Old Chestnut and just in time for Christmas !..........I'm optimistic about getting a pay rise possibly next week, it will be my first rise since Jan 2015, maybe I should not accept the 1-1.5 % I might get after all, I'm lucky to have a job, any job and hell I am lording it on £8.20 an hour.

So your pay rise is roughly keeping pace with the cost of life? And your beef is?

 

[drew]

Just seems odd, you apply for a job, accept the job offer and contract, and then at a later date decide you aren't happy with the contract. But rather than leaving the job, you leverage government laws to force a higher salary by threatening disruption to the general public. It's extortion in everything but name. So my version would be, if you don't like the job, your protest can be to quit and let someone else do the job who is more willing.

I don't know what the consequence would be. But I don't believe wealth can be conjured by legislation alone (to your minimum wage comment). Wealth results from hard work, and more wealth comes when the person most willing to do the work does it. That cannot happen efficiently with strike protection.

So, those that work in sweatshops for god knows how many hours a day can expect to end up wealthy because they put in the hours or, will it be their bosses that get rich. Your view of wealth creation is very simplistic.

That said is it about people becoming wealthy or is it about a fair wage and conditions. Or, in some cases, is it about safety. The junior doctors strike was not about demanding more money but about what they considered was going to be an unsafe system of work purely driven by political ideology. The Southern situation is about a move to driver only trains. Dumbing down the conductor role now, leading to eventual phasing out.

Still, loads of union bashers on here thinking it's still the 1970s.

 

[vegster]

So your pay rise is roughly keeping pace with the cost of life? And your beef is?

Oh I see, 1.5% over 2 years seems a tad excessive to you does it ? So when my wage was reduced about 8 years ago by 25% ( which has never recovered ) was I keeping pace with the cost of living then ? did everything else go down 25% ?

I have 8 years of my working life when I went backwards financially that I will never get back. I think that there are many others in the same position who hear Mrs May say what a "Robust " economy we have and see the huge profits the big companies and high earners are making and want their share.

 

[wellquickwoody]

You are completely missing the point. You get a job, you might even enjoy the job and want to stay in it. You might even find one that enables you to start a family a life. But you have increasing costs, cost of living rises, inflation, you are finding yourself squeezed. Yet the company you work for is taking in profits and paying dividends and you have no pay rise, you are worse off. All the while the company bosses a creaming it at the top. In many cases, the employers are squeezing more hours and reduced terms on the employees. Striking is a very very blunt tool, but it is practically the only one at the disposal of a workforce.

Edited to add, regarding hard work, that hard work and loyal work should be rewarded, especially when because of hard work by employees, a company can make billions.

But YOU have increasing costs............since when is that your employers problem?

 

[Captain Sensible]

But YOU have increasing costs............since when is that your employers problem?

Lol!!!! Really?? Have you any idea how society works? Or how employees that help to bring in company profits are to be rewarded by their work? As an incentive to go again and keep working well.
On the other hand, it really doesn't matter what anyone says to you, if that is what you believe.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Oh I see, 1.5% over 2 years seems a tad excessive to you does it ? So when my wage was reduced about 8 years ago by 25% ( which has never recovered ) was I keeping pace with the cost of living then ? did everything else go down 25% ?

I have 8 years of my working life when I went backwards financially that I will never get back. I think that there are many others in the same position who hear Mrs May say what a "Robust " economy we have and see the huge profits the big companies and high earners are making and want their share.

Exactly why did your wage go down by 25%? And have you not sought alternative employment since then to redress the balance?

 

[wellquickwoody]

Er, yeah, really.

 

[vegster]

This is a generic argument and not based on this exact case. Most unions are the employees themselves and they are simply managed under an umbrella of Unite or RMT. The disputes are between the company and its own workforce. When both sides fail to agree, that's when the larger Union umbrella steps in. So all these disputes are started by a problem between the employees and the company bosses, the employees own union representatives are often in charge of dates of strike etc, but the big press stuff is done by the parent union. So to you it looks like Red Len or whoever is instigating this, when in actual fact it's the employees. They need the help and financial clout of the parent union.
There is an increasing trend for big bosses and big businesses to push wages lower and lower whiles profits get higher and bosses pay themselves more. Workers are talking about a 2or3% payrise and bosses are upping their pay by 10times that amount. It's no coincidence that all these strikes are coming to a head now, probably a coordinated effort for maximum impact, I for one agree it's the right thing to do. Everyone always asks what the union has done to resolve matters but its the company that has a duty to pay its staff fairly and allow staff to share in the success of a company. Bosses in this country are greedy and just aren't doing it. Their opinion is that if you don't like it, leave. This small society 'f*ck 'em' attitude is pushing us toward one of the most unequal disparities of wealth in the world.

My company is exploring the option of introducing Apprentices in store, not because they end up with a trade qualification like a bricklayer or plumber but merely because you can pay them less than the minimum wage.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Lol!!!! Really?? Have you any idea how society works? Or how a employees that help to bring in company profits are to be rewarded by their work?
On the other hand, as you wrote what you did it really doesn't matter what your opinion is.

Brexit voter I guess?

You ask if I know how society works? I ask if you understand simple economics? Your employer has to budget for costs v profit (try it sometime), if he/she can afford a pay rise then all is cool in the world, but if they cannot afford it you throw your toys out of the pram because YOUR costs have increased. Please do explain your moral high ground..........

 

[vegster]

Exactly why did your wage go down by 25%? And have you not sought alternative employment since then to redress the balance?

I was made redundant and took a 25% pay cut in order to do the same job for another company.....since that time the average for the industry has stagnated and fallen in many cases.... I did nearly land a job for £19k a year 2 years back, however it was only a one year contract and at my age I need security of employment, I would not have simply walked back in to my old job as they would have employed someone on less money than me and hoped to train them.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Brexit voter I guess?

You ask if I know how society works? I ask if you understand simple economics? Your employer has to budget for costs v profit (try it sometime), if he/she can afford a pay rise then all is cool in the world, but if they cannot afford it you throw your toys out of the pram because YOUR costs have increased. Please do explain your moral high ground..........

Remainer
I shouldn't have to explain it, oh but I already did by my previous posts. As I said, if you don't understand that working toward a profit in a company derserves reward, or that wages need to try to keep up with costs of living for all our sakes, then you just won't ever get it.

Edited to Add, British Airways and Swissport made billions last year, and Govia Thameslink are Government backed. Why can they not afford a few percent pay rise? Wait they can!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

They don't know how fing lucky they are to have a job. May be If they had been in my position of being a month away of not being able to make the mortgage payment they might think differently about things. A job is to job these days and you have to grab what you can no matter how crap things are, because If you don't there are thousands of European workers ready to take the job.

It's your attitude which allows employers to take the piss.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Exactly why did your wage go down by 25%? And have you not sought alternative employment since then to redress the balance?

You're coming across as a bit of I'm alright jack tossed.

 

[Chicken Run]

Remainer
I shouldn't have to explain it, oh but I already did by my previous posts. As I said, if you don't understand that working toward a profit in a company derserves reward, or that wages need to try to keep up with costs of living for all our sakes, then you just won't ever get it.

Edited to Add, British Airways and Swissport made billions last year, and Govia Thameslink are Government backed. Why can they not afford a few percent pay rise? Wait they can!

I can assure you that even if these companies gave a 1 % above inflation pay rise each year it wouldn't be enough for a union backed workforce, they would always want more!

 

[Murray 17]

Train drivers earn in excess of £40k and I understand they do a 37 hour week ..... how is that not being paid reasonably ?

Which is why they can afford to strike for 6 days in January, and no doubt many more days after that. Guards are quite well paid, for what they do, too.

 

[Murray 17]

As the train drivers striking over pay then?

News to me.

I can't believe so many would be happy to see the ability to withdraw your labour in protest outlawed by government. Can't you see where that would end up?

Withdraw your labour is one thing, paralyse the rail system weekly is quite another.

 

[El Presidente]

I can assure you that even if these companies gave a 1 % above inflation pay rise each year it wouldn't be enough for a union backed workforce, they would always want more!

Surely everyone would want more, that's fairly natural.

I'd quite like a threesome with Holly Willoughby and Konnie Huq, BUT if a couple of lingerie models were on offer too, I'd want them all..................and then I woke up.

 

[Murray 17]

The Southern situation is about a move to driver only trains. Dumbing down the conductor role now, leading to eventual phasing out.

The question's been asked many times before, but if it's about drivers operating the doors, why are other regions (who have had this system operating for a while) not on strike?

 

[darkwolf666]

The law needs to be changed to stop unions holding the public to ransom.

The law has been changed, frequently, to do precisely what you say - despite what many seem to think, unlike the 70s when unions went on strike if they got the wrong biscuits the modern union does only use striking as a last resort....

Modern society dictates that the average union worker needs their disposal income far more than was the case previously, it is not an easy decision to deliberately dock yourself pay!

 

[darkwolf666]

So you are condoning their choice of strike dates having had talks stall over a year ago? Righto

Every time I haven't liked my boss or pay I've changed jobs...and then ended up working for myself. I find it hard to sympathise with wankers who strike at peak times.

Surely though as a union leader you want to get what is best for your members, to do this you have to make maximum capital (disruption), this gets the most notice and hopefully for them forces the employers hand - it is a tried and tested method that has been used for decades, if not longer.