[Politics] Brexit

[El Presidente]

they would? seemed everyone was wetting themselfs over similar prices rises two weeks ago. of course Germans wouldnt care about losing market share to UK, US or Japanese competition, its only 20% of their sales after all.

20% Wow, didn't know it was that high. Where did you get that figure from?

 

[alfredmizen]

This is an arse about face argument. We make twice as many cars as the Germans these days.

Ultimately you have to look at the bigger picture anyway. Our economy is about a seventh the size of the rest of the EU, ergo we are in a weaker bargaining position. It really couldn't be simpler than that.

It may be , but we've seen a recent example where the trade deal with Canada was held up for ages and even looked like being scuppered because of a few Wallonian farmers , German car and white goods manufacturers will have a bit more clout than that.

 

[El Presidente]

It may be , but we've seen a recent example where the trade deal with Canada was held up for ages and even looked like being scuppered because of a few Wallonian farmers , German car and white goods manufacturers will have a bit more clout than that.

There's no desire from any German political party to forego freedom of movement of labour though. If the EU sacrifices that to the UK, then other countries with whom they have agreements (such as Norway) will demand similar terms.

If the UK is willing to be flexible in terms of movement of labour there is the potential for a FTA with both EU and the likes of India. Even a major Brexiteer such as James Dyson, who accompanied May on the current trumpet tour of India, is keen to more relaxed migration terms, especially in respect of students, as it makes it easier for him to recruit talented STEM graduates.

 

[Brighton Mod]

I agree because a lot of people in this country would probably find the plans her and her Brexit clowns have dreamed up for us are deeply unpalatable, bur she intends to press on with them anyway in the most cack-handed way possible.

Brexit means:

No directives from an unelected beaurocracy in Brussels.

No ECHR allowing terrorists to stay in this country when they should be deported

Trade deals, if we need them of course because we are already trading with countries outside the EU, with those who we choose to deal with.

Protecting farmers in third world countries by not excluding them from Europe allowing an artificial price for agricultural produce to be charged within the EU.

Controlling our borders correctly and with compassion.

No more contributions to an unelected body placing our money were they like, with us becoming a huge net contributor

Continuing to trade with Europe because they send more goods to the Uk than we send to Europe.

Not having to see Merkel directing policy, answering for Europe without consultation and being allowed to bail out her own banks via Central Bank loans to Greece.

Not being sucked into the downward vortex of a money drain such as Greece, Italy , Spain and Portugal.

The EU has yet to answer where it will get its shortfall of funds from the UK replaced and where the inevitable cuts in Europe will come as our money is no longer available to them. It won't be the UK that will be in recession it will most of Europe.

There is no hard or soft Brexit, its media term and was not on the ballot paper during the referendum. The referendum made Parliament irrelevant as they had already handed over the responsibility to the British people and did not get the result they expected, because they were out of touch with reality.

Theresa May will do a good job and for those who wish to knock please continue, because as every day passes and the economy (which is the fifth biggest in the world) does not fall off the edge of the cliff, you look more and more detached from reality.

 

[Brighton Mod]

There's no desire from any German political party to forego freedom of movement of labour though. If the EU sacrifices that to the UK, then other countries with whom they have agreements (such as Norway) will demand similar terms.

If the UK is willing to be flexible in terms of movement of labour there is the potential for a FTA with both EU and the likes of India. Even a major Brexiteer such as James Dyson, who accompanied May on the current trumpet tour of India, is keen to more relaxed migration terms, especially in respect of students, as it makes it easier for him to recruit talented STEM graduates.

Does the recent trade agreement with Canada allow free movement between Canada and the EU?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

You basically said the same thing. Most leavers wanted to end the free movement of people, not all. And just about all remainers don't want to end the free movement of people, as it would mean no free trade. I also posted a poll here on the subject. It's pretty clear.

Not disagreeing on the point you are making re the arithmetic. However, just a small point; ending free movement of people would not end free trade.

 

[alfredmizen]

There's no desire from any German political party to forego freedom of movement of labour though. If the EU sacrifices that to the UK, then other countries with whom they have agreements (such as Norway) will demand similar terms.

If the UK is willing to be flexible in terms of movement of labour there is the potential for a FTA with both EU and the likes of India. Even a major Brexiteer such as James Dyson, who accompanied May on the current trumpet tour of India, is keen to more relaxed migration terms, especially in respect of students, as it makes it easier for him to recruit talented STEM graduates.

Its the pressure that the car makers can exert on political parties that is key , as for STEM graduates, that is something this country should be concentrating on , rather than churning out theatre studies and travel and tourism graduates .

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Sorry if this has been posted already:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...eep-parliament-live-move-abroad-a7405196.html

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I think she is saying she wants control of immigration now, she was saying control of borders previously, which we do have control of, just not the power to refuse entry to EU citizens.
JC is correct in that it is highly unlikely the EU will allow that and to remain in the single market, but as we know, Parliament will have a say about this matter, and parliament may decide that freedom of movement is a price we may be willing to pay for continued free trade in the EU.
Not only is it going to be impossible to please the 48% who wanted to remain, it is going to be very difficult to please half of the 52% that wanted out.

The conventional wisdom seems to be that to be in the single market means free movement of people. Presumably those that wish to be in the single market would also be happy with a free trade agreement between the U.K. and the EU rather than membership of the single market ? This way there would be no strings attached with free movement. What am I missing ?

 

[Triggaaar]

Absolutely. Leavers say we should put up with a little pain in the short-term, well the Germans and the rest of Europe will do the same rather than let the EU fall apart

If we stop importing from the EU, the EU will fall apart. Of course Europe doesn't want it to fall apart, and having a fair deal with the UK would stop it falling apart, so it makes sense for them to agree a fair deal.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

May's judgement should also be called into question regarding her appointment of Liz "opening up pork market in Beijing" Truss who has no qualifications or gravitas for such a job


https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ronted-by-tory-mps-handling-of-article-50-row

Just be thankful that JC isn't PM and appointing Dianne Abbott to high office......

 

[Triggaaar]

Not disagreeing on the point you are making re the arithmetic. However, just a small point; ending free movement of people would not end free trade.

Just to be clear, I'm referring to tariff free access to the single market.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Just to be clear, I'm referring to tariff free access to the single market.

I'm not sure I agree. Why can't we negotiate a free trade agreement with the EU but not be members of the single market ?

 

[Brighton Mod]

I'm not sure I agree. Why can't we negotiate a free trade agreement with the EU but not be members of the single market ?

What about Mexico and Canada, they're not members of the single market and they have a trade deal. Look at the wording 'single market' it does what is says, leaves allows allwithin access to the single market that excludes the rest of the world, just as the Brussels beaurocrats would have it.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Surely having minimum wage (and now living wage) legislation in existence is a form of safeguarding those most vulnerable to the excesses of employer bullying. There are still those who will find away around it (Amazon, Mike Ashley etc.) but it's a domestic rather than EU issue. The way the benefits system works it is not worthwhile moving away from JSA to paid employment for short term work sadly. EU migrant workers therefore fill these gaps.

Yes, minimum wage is a safeguard and safety net. The problem is that excess supply of unskilled Labour drives wages for that sector, across the board, down to the minimum wage level. The obvious answer is to increase the minimum wage but with free movement from the EU that would likely attract more immigration and this has social and public service consequences. Those on minimum wage are not net contributors in taxation as they pay very little tax .

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm not sure I agree. Why can't we negotiate a free trade agreement with the EU but not be members of the single market ?

Well we can (and should) certainly try. I'm not saying it's impossible.

While some are saying that the EU will give us a bad deal, having tariff free access to the single market and ending the free movement of people would certainly be at the opposite end of what's possible.

 

[nicko31]

Sorry if this has been posted already:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...eep-parliament-live-move-abroad-a7405196.html

Indeed, why should 48% of our population most of whom were born European Citizens be stripped of it, if they want to keep it why not?

If the leavers want to give up their EU Citizenship I have no objection

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Indeed, why should 48% of our population most of whom were born European Citizens be stripped of it, if they want to keep it why not?

If the leavers want to give up their EU Citizenship I have no objection

I believe there is a group putting together a legal case on that basis.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Indeed, why should 48% of our population most of whom were born European Citizens be stripped of it, if they want to keep it why not?

If the leavers want to give up their EU Citizenship I have no objection

That's a great idea. Will the EU really allow U.K. Citizens free movement while the U.K. does not
reciprocate? If so we should agree immediately.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

That's a great idea. Will the EU really allow U.K. Citizens free movement while the U.K. does not
reciprocate? If so we should agree immediately.

I think they would agree to anything that would split the country further and weaken our hand