[Politics] Brexit

[smeg]

Obviously had a bit of cash spare then for the home improvements. Surely as you "knew" post Brexit the country would implode you would have the sense to book an all inclusive pre Brexit.

All inclusive, is that where you get school dinner style buffet food and non branded alcohol? Actually i had the sense to not book one.

 

[spring hall convert]

This is from an FB post by a QC.

The actual post is a lot longer, so I've just included this bit as I think it's relevant to your hypothesis on why they would appeal.

"The triggering of Article 50 requires an Act of Parliament, passed by both Houses. That even someone with the experience of Ken Clarke believed that a resolution of just the House of Commons would be sufficient, demonstrates the lack of understanding of the processes involved.

What will the Act look like? If it is to enshrine the "sort of Brexit" that will be acceptable before Article 50 is triggered this would be almost impossible to achieve, because it would be reliant on various pre-conditions which could never be delivered because there can be no pre-negotiations with the EU. There would be so many sunrise clauses that we would be living in perpetual daylight. If the leavers believe that the decision of the Court makes Brexit less likely, they are right."

In other words. Defining an acceptable Act of Parliament that will trigger Article 50 is a nightmare. Hence why a successful appeal would appear desirable.

I'm bored of experts.

 

[Soulman]

All inclusive, is that where you get school dinner style buffet food and non branded alcohol? Actually i had the sense to not book one.

Why complain then about supposedly not being able to afford a holiday post Brexit. Obviously all inclusive is beneath you.

 

[heathgate]

Leaving the EU = taking back control is simplistic bollocks. The idea that the EU controlled our laws is a complete deceit.

Staying in the single market, retaining free movement, remaining within the customs union...all vital if the country is not to go even further down the pan.

God, 2016 has been shit.

Even the most rabid pro EU sycophants admit to 35% of current active legislation as originating from Brussels....include the other non legislative but binding regulation, then the figure is closer to 60%..... it just needs a bit of background checking mate... before you start talking deceit.



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[heathgate]

This whole fiasco could have been penned by Shakespeare.
Leavers who maintain they voted out over concern of the downgrading of a Sovereign Parliament, are now arguing that, that same Parliament should have little or no say, in our exit.
It's a shame that he had already used the title, A Comedy of Errors

...and remainers who are now championing the sanctity of our sovereign democratic process in action, previously were happy that their lives should be run from Brussels and Strasbourg.

Much ado about nothing.

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[Pogue Mahone]

Why has 2016 been shit, how has the vote leave affected you.

As The Clamp said,

Personally...The pound has nose-dived, making it much more expensive when travelling in mainland Europe, where I spend a lot of time. Spending time in Europe will be increasingly difficult when freedom of movement is more limited. My son's ambition to go to University in Berlin has been scuppered. My children's future prospects have been severely curtailed, their rights to live and work in Europe will not be what they have been. My pension will be worth substantially less. My employment rights will be stripped right back. Friends and colleagues have been racially abused.

Globally...what I believed to be an open, warm, inclusive country has been shown to be largely nationalistic, isolationist and suspicious. There has been a seismic split of the populace, and this looks likely to become ever more entrenched. Racist rhetoric has become an acceptable tactic of the mainstream media, racist attacks have increased, the general atmosphere is one of distrust and anger. Withdrawal from the single market and customs union can only lead to financial depression.

We lost in the play offs.

David Bowie, Prince, Gene Wilder, Muhammad Ali and Ronnie Corbett have died.

Now watch Trump win the US election.

 

[Soulman]

As The Clamp said,

Personally...The pound has nose-dived, making it much more expensive when travelling in mainland Europe, where I spend a lot of time. Spending time in Europe will be increasingly difficult when freedom of movement is more limited. My son's ambition to go to University in Berlin has been scuppered. My children's future prospects have been severely curtailed, their rights to live and work in Europe will not be what they have been. My pension will be worth substantially less. My employment rights will be stripped right back. Friends and colleagues have been racially abused.

Globally...what I believed to be an open, warm, inclusive country has been shown to be largely nationalistic, isolationist and suspicious. There has been a seismic split of the populace, and this looks likely to become ever more entrenched. Racist rhetoric has become an acceptable tactic of the mainstream media, racist attacks have increased, the general atmosphere is one of distrust and anger. Withdrawal from the single market and customs union can only lead to financial depression.

We lost in the play offs.

David Bowie, Prince, Gene Wilder, Muhammad Ali and Ronnie Corbett have died.

Now watch Trump win the US election.

A few might apply to you, most are what might happen. The only ones for sure are the star deaths and the Albion losing in the play offs.
I hope the recession in 2007 when we were in the EU was kinder to you.

 

[cunning fergus]

I don't think we are in much disagreement at all, the English civil war may well have cemented parliamentary sovereignty but what did it mean in the immediate aftermath?

Far from being a vessel of progression it reinforced rule by an propertied elite who rejected universal suffrage despite that being on the table in the Putney debates.

Then we get to the Protectorate and Cromwell's reign.......another 40 years before the bill of rights. Which was an advance.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

A few might apply to you, most are what might happen. The only ones for sure are the star deaths and the Albion losing in the play offs.
I hope the recession in 2007 when we were in the EU was kinder to you.

Yes, I will imagine the previous recession will be seen to be much less destructive.

Am I not allowed to think 2016 has been shit because what I believe will happen has not happened yet?

Are you really discounting the increase in racial tension since the vote?

Have you not noticed the collapse of the pound - even before Brexit has been implemented?

 

[ManOfSussex]

I wonder if the papers that go on about the fact Gina Miller was born in Guyana realise it was a crown colony when she was born there?

Probably not.

 

[fat old seagull]

i dont buy in to "no plan" as its been months now and they would have put civil servants to work devising plans and permtations. there maybe some conflict over best approach, or simply not wanting to declare their intentions everyone to rack over and oppose for the sake of opposing (cf McDonnells reaction to Nissan). i think its simple stubborness, with a dose of keeping the brexiteers on side so as not to look like they are wavering. this is also why i dont expect any GE, because there is no way you can get the other side of an election and suddenly have unity on the matter, all the same issues will be bubbling away.

You do know there has been 100,000 Civil Service redundancies in the past 5 years, and thousands more scheduled. We have zero trade negotiators left within the service, as all were offloaded, with the exception of the few who moved to Brussels to reinforce the EU trade negotiation team.
Why this wasn't considered prior to the referendum, was simply that no one believed that it would happen.

Now we languish in Sh*t Street, can't win (the EU won't let us). Or we have to kowtow back there with our tails between our legs. Suggesting it's all been a silly mistake or the electorate was hypnotised by a bunch of loonies who have since run away or been punished.....oh well

 

[Soulman]

Yes, I will imagine the previous recession will be seen to be much less destructive.

Am I not allowed to think 2016 has been shit because what I believe will happen has not happened yet?

Are you really discounting the increase in racial tension since the vote?

Have you not noticed the collapse of the pound - even before Brexit has been implemented?

Not noticed the last two points.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Where do you work out of curiosity? I've not met a leaver yet.

SAYS SO MUCH ABOUT YOU THEN................tried taking your head out of the sand
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

As The Clamp said,

Personally...The pound has nose-dived, making it much more expensive when travelling in mainland Europe, where I spend a lot of time. Spending time in Europe will be increasingly difficult when freedom of movement is more limited. My son's ambition to go to University in Berlin has been scuppered. My children's future prospects have been severely curtailed, their rights to live and work in Europe will not be what they have been. My pension will be worth substantially less. My employment rights will be stripped right back. Friends and colleagues have been racially abused.

Globally...what I believed to be an open, warm, inclusive country has been shown to be largely nationalistic, isolationist and suspicious. There has been a seismic split of the populace, and this looks likely to become ever more entrenched. Racist rhetoric has become an acceptable tactic of the mainstream media, racist attacks have increased, the general atmosphere is one of distrust and anger. Withdrawal from the single market and customs union can only lead to financial depression.

We lost in the play offs.

David Bowie, Prince, Gene Wilder, Muhammad Ali and Ronnie Corbett have died.

Now watch Trump win the US election.

WHY DON'T YOU TAKE RESIDENCE IN Europe it would be oh so much better for you .............. ANOTHER WEAK DEFEATIST
regards
DR

 

[Pogue Mahone]

WHY DON'T YOU TAKE RESIDENCE IN Europe it would be oh so much better for you .............. ANOTHER WEAK DEFEATIST
regards
DR

Ah, our resident idiot has arrived. I will not bother to enter into any debate with you as you have the brain of an amoeba.

 

[BigGully]

You do know there has been 100,000 Civil Service redundancies in the past 5 years, and thousands more scheduled. We have zero trade negotiators left within the service, as all were offloaded, with the exception of the few who moved to Brussels to reinforce the EU trade negotiation team.
Why this wasn't considered prior to the referendum, was simply that no one believed that it would happen.

Now we languish in Sh*t Street, can't win (the EU won't let us). Or we have to kowtow back there with our tails between our legs. Suggesting it's all been a silly mistake or the electorate was hypnotised by a bunch of loonies who have since run away or been punished.....oh well :shrug:

What a depressing opinion you have of your own country, its worth and its aspirations, argue the toss by all means regarding the EU, but to capitulate under the guise of 'languish in Sh*t Street as the EU wont let us succeed and then cite this as good reason to stay I find astonishing.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

ah, our resident idiot has arrived. I will not bother to enter into any debate with you as you have the brain of an amoeba.

translated = yes you're right
regards
DR

 

[The Clamp]

WHY DON'T YOU TAKE RESIDENCE IN Europe it would be oh so much better for you .............. ANOTHER WEAK DEFEATIST
regards
DR

He does, and if he stays in the UK, will continue to reside in Europe. You utter buffoon.

 

[Steve in Japan]

Despite recently resigned Tory Stephen Phillips himself having voted for a different version of leave to what you are suggesting.

"Last month the MP wrote an article in which he said said he hoped that after Brexit Britain would "remain in the single market to which the manifesto of every major political party at the last election committed us".

Thank you, just read that article. Not surprised he resigned. He seems to have voted Leave when he meant to tick Remain.

 

[Guinness Boy]

As The Clamp said,

Personally...The pound has nose-dived, making it much more expensive when travelling in mainland Europe, where I spend a lot of time. Spending time in Europe will be increasingly difficult when freedom of movement is more limited. My son's ambition to go to University in Berlin has been scuppered. My children's future prospects have been severely curtailed, their rights to live and work in Europe will not be what they have been. My pension will be worth substantially less. My employment rights will be stripped right back. Friends and colleagues have been racially abused.

Globally...what I believed to be an open, warm, inclusive country has been shown to be largely nationalistic, isolationist and suspicious. There has been a seismic split of the populace, and this looks likely to become ever more entrenched. Racist rhetoric has become an acceptable tactic of the mainstream media, racist attacks have increased, the general atmosphere is one of distrust and anger. Withdrawal from the single market and customs union can only lead to financial depression.

We lost in the play offs.

David Bowie, Prince, Gene Wilder, Muhammad Ali and Ronnie Corbett have died.

Now watch Trump win the US election.

Going off topic a bit but sociologically it's arguable that some of this was inevitable anyway. Not us losing in the playoffs or the celebrity deaths but certainly the shift to the right. It's not just here, it's global.

Firstly we've had a couple of decades of convergence. Basically, moves to social democracy / centerist governments as communism collapsed in the Eastern Bloc and Thatcherism collapsed here. Clinton and Obama in the US, even Bush wasn't THAT rabidly right wing (compared to Farrage or Trump anyway). These made things a lot better in a lot of Western countries. Only, guess what, we then thought it would be a good idea to include the former Eastern bloc in our not so little EU club and try to impose Western democracy in the Middle East. The unintended consequences? That people in Poland thought that we might just be a better bet than the high unemployment and low knowledge of entrepreneurial culture in their own country while people in the Middle East either fled our wars or turned to the radical Wahhabism that was standing up to the West. So, when people's kids start dying in unnecessary wars and Poles and Latvians start taking their jobs or business they naturally blame those centerist governments that they perhaps elected. Farage's masterstroke, like him or not, was to recognise this.

Secondly technology allows for this fear and loathing to spread untamed and un-fact-checked throughout the internet. If Hitler was alive today he wouldn't have needed the Nurembourg rallies. He would have just started a Facebook group. As I said on another thread people who generally think that 'politics is boring' have little or no compunction about sharing the latest Britain First nonsense on their wall just in case any one of their friends suspected that they might be converting to Islam or considering kiddie fiddling.

2016 isn't the worry. The worry is increasingly nationalistic governments throughout Europe with Putin and, as you say, Trump on either side of them. Plus the Chinese. Plus I.S. One of the strong reasons I voted remain - and one that the remain campaign criminally ignored - was that Europe was a safer place with the EU. Yes, there's the odd terror attack currently. But if other countries start leaving as well, post Brexit, the threat of another war on European soil becomes very real. This, incidentally, is why May will get us a really shit exit deal. Pour encourager les autres.