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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,084


Hamilton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
12,513
Brighton
Theresa May committed at conference to three key issues

1: Article 50 by end of March 2017

2: The imposition of migration controls on EU citizens coming to the UK is non-negotiable. (But no detail on how tight these should be, William Hague urged this week, for example, a very loose arrangement in which a permit will be given to any EU national – skilled or unskilled - who has secured a job in Britain.

3: The UK will no longer be under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.

This last point is important because it means Britain cannot be a member of the single market and is therefore committed to forging a bespoke free trade agreement with the EU. So what is going to be the alternative?

Liam Fox, the disgraced former Defence Minsister who is now the International Trade Secretary, wants the UK to leave the European Custom's Union, believing it is only the way for Britain to forge trade deals with non-EU states. Philip Hammond, the chancellor, wants to stay, fearing the bureaucratic hurdles will impose a “frictional cost” for exporters as there will be increased form filling and bureacracy when exporting to the EU.

Either Fox or Hammond will come out as a winner, and the tone of the party conference was that Fox is in the box seat, so Hammond's days are numbered as he is so idealogically apart from the disgraced former Defence Minister that his position as Chancellor is surely untenable.

On that last point, it's worth noting everything she said in relation to the ECoJ. She certainly gives herself loads of wriggle room.

"But we will seek the best deal possible as we negotiate a new agreement with the European Union. I want that deal to reflect the kind of mature, cooperative relationship that close friends and allies enjoy. I want it to include cooperation on law enforcement and counter-terrorism work. I want it to involve free trade, in goods and services. I want it to give British companies the maximum freedom to trade with and operate in the Single Market – and let European businesses do the same here. But let me be clear. We are not leaving the European Union only to give up control of immigration again. And we are not leaving only to return to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.

As ever with international talks, it will be a negotiation, it will require some give and take, and while there will always be pressure to give a running commentary on the state of the talks, it will not be in our best interests as a country to do that. But make no mistake: this is going to be a deal that works for Britain."
 




5ways

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2012
2,217
Yes, if the federalists from the European Council (and Commission) had listened to the British people's concerns over the EU and been more open to a bit of reform back in February then remain might just have sneaked a win. All they had to do was allow Cameron to go back with a couple of worthwhile concessions.

Blame the likes of Tusk and Juncker for being so arrogant.

I hope very much they regret giving Cameron such thin gruel, of course.
 






Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
It was "arranged" for us not them, after huge pressure from the public and after years of promises and backsliding on giving a referendum.
I dont see mass complaining by brexiters.
Leaving The EU,gaining back control of the courts,free and independent, ending free movement.
whats not to like?

As I am sure you really know, the referendum was promised by chancer Dave purely as a way to head off the populist Trumpery that was threatening a number of his MPs. Tell me about this 'huge pressure'.
 




Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
19,741
Eastbourne
As I am sure you really know, the referendum was promised by chancer Dave purely as a way to head off the populist Trumpery that was threatening a number of his MPs. Tell me about this 'huge pressure'.
You know the reasons and you know about the pressure. I'm convinced you are now simply trolling as you are so p*ssed off with the situation. The decision is made, we have to move on, constantly arguing about what should have been is not the solution, is it?
 




vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,907
Europe should be worrying about their falling empire. They can make all the idle threats they like but we're in the driving seat.
And we have 2 1/2 years before we drive off the cliff!
 












One Love

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2011
4,377
Brighton
Leaving The EU, something I don't give a sh about, something I don't give a sh about, something I don't give a sh about,
whats not to like?

Being part of some sort of insular, isolationist close-minded nation who doesn't give a f about other nationals worse off than them, not having free movement for the family with EU, financially worse off in the short-term, uncertainty over economic situation long term.
 


Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
You know the reasons and you know about the pressure. I'm convinced you are now simply trolling as you are so p*ssed off with the situation. The decision is made, we have to move on, constantly arguing about what should have been is not the solution, is it?

I am not trolling at all. Pastafarian said that there had been huge pressure to hold a referendum and I asked what that huge pressure was. All I know is that James Goldsmith entered his Referendum Party in the '97 election with the specific promise of a referendum but not that many people voted for him. Ten years on UKIP built a more widely based anti-establishment head of steam similar to that enjoyed by the SDP in the early 80s. It was less less powerful than the SDP upsurge in terms of Westminster general or by-election victories, but Dave wasn't exactly Margaret Thatcher and he promised a referendum before the 2015 election (famously consulting with very few of his colleagues).

My view therefore is that Pastafarian was wrong to imply a mighty groundswell of public opinion in favour of a referendum. Disagree with me by all means but don't accuse me of trolling.
 


Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
19,741
Eastbourne
Being part of some sort of insular, isolationist close-minded nation who doesn't give a f about other nationals worse off than them, not having free movement for the family with EU, financially worse off in the short-term, uncertainty over economic situation long term.
Luckily we aren't part of an insular and isolationist nation. We will trade with anyone who is reasonable. We are also a very charitable nation, do you think that will stop? Successive governments have encouraged doctors and nurses from the EU and beyond to work for the NHS at the expense of their poorer country, do you think that was a good policy?Because that's what we've been doing as part of free movement within the EU. And as for free movement for holidays, people managed to travel throughout Europe without a visa and with a minimum of paperwork long before the EU.
 




Seagull58

In the Algarve
Jan 31, 2012
7,362
Vilamoura, Portugal
I'm gutted this has all happened with Brexit, it really is pushing me towards continuing to work in Asia. I have some income from renting out my family home in Sussex though and whilst my earnings over here improve should I bring them back to the UK, the rent money is now not worth converting to currencies and is instead encouraging me to save it up in the UK banks (despite awful interest). Who knows if the whole UK goes tits up I might finally be able to afford to live in Brighton one day! Unless Chinese and Russians buy everything up and feck the younger generation's situation up even more.

If ou were putting that rent money into equity ISAs you'd have made a mint over the past 4 months and even more this year to date. I've got one fund up 30% this year alone and another one up 25%,plus a couple of others around 10%.
 




Seagull58

In the Algarve
Jan 31, 2012
7,362
Vilamoura, Portugal
It's now beyond a Brexit spin story. A low pound is good for exports but it has now fallen so low, that the negative affects will soon be felt in your energy bills, fuel costs and imports being so expensive as to push up prices in the stores. It's not a good thing to fall to such low levels. The FTSE can do as well as it likes, but unless you are a fatcat and major shareholder, you aren't going to get anything positive from it.

You don't have to be a fatcat to invest your pensioncand other moniesint the markets and ride the wave!!!!
 


Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
19,741
Eastbourne
I am not trolling at all. Pastafarian said that there had been huge pressure to hold a referendum and I asked what that huge pressure was. All I know is that James Goldsmith entered his Referendum Party in the '97 election with the specific promise of a referendum but not that many people voted for him. Ten years on UKIP built a more widely based anti-establishment head of steam similar to that enjoyed by the SDP in the early 80s. It was less less powerful than the SDP upsurge in terms of Westminster general or by-election victories, but Dave wasn't exactly Margaret Thatcher and he promised a referendum before the 2015 election (famously consulting with very few of his colleagues).

My view therefore is that Pastafarian was wrong to imply a mighty groundswell of public opinion in favour of a referendum. Disagree with me by all means but don't accuse me of trolling.
Maybe trolling is not the correct word but I sincerely disagree that there was not huge pressure. The disaffection of labour voters who fled labour and went to UKIP proves that it was not just a Tory problem but transcended party politics in its nature. I hope the referendum will eventually have released a valve as I could see a larger lurch to the right by the Tories and a larger lurch to the left by labour if we were still a member of the club. I hate the polarisation that the referendum has brought but I understand it. However it is still too early, way too early to worry about changes in the market. We will see the long term changes over time, panicking and scaremongering along with retributive sentiments really will not help anyone in the long term. We need to be realistic, realise that things will be a mixture of good and bad and get in with the job of doing the best we possibly can for ourselves and our family and friends and all the people of this still great country.
 








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