The Jeremy Corbyn thread

[cunning fergus]

You do need to get over yourself with your labels.

But despite your sad little accusation at the end there, yes the electorate has largely been this way - of course it has, that is why we've had more Conservative governments in the last 100 years than we have had Labour. Labour don't get into power on just it's traditional Labour vote. The electorate does consist of a huge number of centrist voters. That is a fact, call them Tory, or Blairite or whatever label suits your narrative but that is the UK electorate, that is how our constituency democracy works - You have to win the votes off the parties that got them last time. You can win them over to the left, but you have to be bloody good.

The schism is because of the difference between the electorate and the membership. Of course it is, how can a political party not be shaped by those that vote for it? The Party stood by Miliband for 5 years when it should have been obvious the electorate weren't going to elect him. That was a huge mistake. As you said he lost Scotland and much of the core vote. Now, they've gone the polar opposite and said after 1 year, we can't do this again. You want to call it the Blairites, a coup against the unions and members, it couldn't just be that Corbyn has turned out to be a bit of a crap leader could it? That he hasn't inspired that confidence, the belief, the vision like John Smith did?

And I keep mentioning Smith because it counters your Blair obsession. Smith made Labour electable on a left mandate, and would have been a great prime minister. We can't go another decade blaming Tony fcking Blair.

We have been having this debate for years Tory boy, and I am not stopping now.

You think that in order to win the centre you have to swing into a free market capitalist with all that goes with it, I disagree.

The referendum demonstrates quite clearly that the majority of the electorate do not trust the existing political class and associated establishment.

The majority of the electorate want to manage this country's labour markets for the vulnerable, they want nationalised rail, mail and utilities, they want a fair tax system, and support for the British steel industry.

They don't want zero hour contracts, derisory minimum wage and being led by the nose by global corporatists plotting scams like the TTIP.

So there you have it, a socialist agenda that would appeal to the vast majority of the electorate in this country........not hard is it.

No doubt unpalatable to your ingrained Tory disposition for free market capitalism, but that's why you are a Tory.

 

[beorhthelm]

Corbyn : The man who wants to build nuclear subs without any weapons

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...byn-trident-compromise-michael-fallon-faslane

Only ever voted Labour but I'm not alone in going nowhere near whilst it has leadership like him. The party had gone mad.

Tory!

 

[beorhthelm]

The referendum demonstrates quite clearly that the majority of the electorate do not trust the existing political class and associated establishment.

The majority of the electorate want to manage this country's labour markets for the vulnerable, they want nationalised rail, mail and utilities, they want a fair tax system, and support for the British steel industry.

They don't want zero hour contracts, derisory minimum wage and being led by the nose by global corporatists plotting scams like the TTIP.

you got all that from people voting to Remain or Leave the EU?

 

[Machiavelli]

you got all that from people voting to Remain or Leave the EU?

He did. Extraordinary. But it's not as if it's something new.

 

[cunning fergus]

you got all that from people voting to Remain or Leave the EU?

Not scientifically but if you want to inter alia, control this country's labour markets, re-nationalise the rail/mail/utilities, subsidise the steel industry and effectively suppress the worst excesses of global capitalists then you would not have voted to Remain.

 

[cunning fergus]

He did. Extraordinary. But it's not as if it's something new.

Logical thinking isn't it.........

 

[biddles911]

Not scientifically but if you want to inter alia, control this country's labour markets, re-nationalise the rail/mail/utilities, subsidise the steel industry and effectively suppress the worst excesses of global capitalists then you would not have voted to Remain.

Better put this straight onto the Referendum thread! Five thousand plus posts and still the first one to interpret a Leave vote to mean all this........

It's all clear to me now?


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[Bold Seagull]

We have been having this debate for years Tory boy, and I am not stopping now.

You think that in order to win the centre you have to swing into a free market capitalist with all that goes with it, I disagree.

The referendum demonstrates quite clearly that the majority of the electorate do not trust the existing political class and associated establishment.

The majority of the electorate want to manage this country's labour markets for the vulnerable, they want nationalised rail, mail and utilities, they want a fair tax system, and support for the British steel industry.

They don't want zero hour contracts, derisory minimum wage and being led by the nose by global corporatists plotting scams like the TTIP.

So there you have it, a socialist agenda that would appeal to the vast majority of the electorate in this country........not hard is it.

No doubt unpalatable to your ingrained Tory disposition for free market capitalism, but that's why you are a Tory.

Of course it is bloody hard! - In the last 40 years we've had 25 years of Tory rule, in a hundred years a Labour government has only served more than 1 term once. Of course it is hard. It is the hardest sell there is to the electorate. If you are going to sell that mandate above, which I would support wholeheartedly, you are going to need a leader of outstanding ability. Corbyn for a year has just flounced around these issues. I am not even sure he is delivering what you have outlined above, are you? Do his colleagues know? Has he outlined a programme of renationalistion, if not why not? I thought that is why the membership voted him in? This doesn't come down to the actual politics, this comes down to whether a leader can deliver. It is that simple. Anyone who doesn't buy into Corbyn you just call a Tory. It is even becoming a running joke now on these boards. But you won't read this, I know you won't, you will regurgitate the same response, call me a Tory again, fingers in your ears.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

If that's your belief then pay £25 to do something about it.

I voted in the last one via union membership. If that doesn't work this time, I intend to pay my £25, as does my wife, so as to vote for somebody other than Mr Corbyn, for whom i did not vote last time.

 

[Gwylan]

In the last 40 years we've had 25 years of Tory rule, in a hundred years a Labour government has only served more than 1 term once.

No: twice. Wilson won in 64 and called an early election in 66 (which he won). Blair won three elections in 1997, 2001 and 2005.

You could say Attlee served two terms as well, when he won elections in 1945 and 1950 but he went to the country in 51 so only served one year in his second term

 

[cunning fergus]

Better put this straight onto the Referendum thread! Five thousand plus posts and still the first one to interpret a Leave vote to mean all this........

It's all clear to me now?


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You've not been paying attention then, there are lots of reasons why a vote leave was a vote for more progressive socialist vision.

Had Corbyn not sacrificed his long held antipathy to the EU for the sake of keeping the tries in the PLP happy I suspect he would have advocated leave.

Keep up at the back.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You've not been paying attention then, there are lots of reasons why a vote leave was a vote for more progressive socialist vision.

Had Corbyn not sacrificed his long held antipathy to the EU for the sake of keeping the tries in the PLP happy I suspect he would have advocated leave.

Keep up at the back.

Just the PLP... Not the fact that Scotland voted overwhelming to remain in the EU, or the youth of the country, and yet these are the votes he's supposed to be winning back with this socialist agenda. Just doesn't stack up does it.

 

[biddles911]

You've not been paying attention then, there are lots of reasons why a vote leave was a vote for more progressive socialist vision.

Had Corbyn not sacrificed his long held antipathy to the EU for the sake of keeping the tries in the PLP happy I suspect he would have advocated leave.

Keep up at the back.

Sorry to be a bit slow.

I don't remember seeing any of this on the referendum paper or even in any of the literature/debates etc. but I'm glad I've been taught the true meaning of Brexit on this thread.........


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[Bold Seagull]

No: twice. Wilson won in 64 and called an early election in 66 (which he won). Blair won three elections in 1997, 2001 and 2005.

You could say Attlee served two terms as well, when he won elections in 1945 and 1950 but he went to the country in 51 so only served one year in his second term

Okay okay, let us say more than one 'full' term then. Wilson served from '64 to '70, and Atlee '45 to '51. You can hardly consider these both 2 full terms in office at 6 years apiece.

 

[beorhthelm]

You've not been paying attention then, there are lots of reasons why a vote leave was a vote for more progressive socialist vision.

thats just what i was thinking when Gove, Fox, Farage and others were campaigning, they are all about the socialist vision.

 

[cunning fergus]

Sorry to be a bit slow.

I don't remember seeing any of this on the referendum paper or even in any of the literature/debates etc. but I'm glad I've been taught the true meaning of Brexit on this thread.........


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That's fine, the trouble these days is that people create orthodoxies around politics...........to quote Eric Blair;

"Orthodoxy means not thinking, not needing to think........orthodoxy is unconsciousness."

 

[biddles911]

That's fine, the trouble these days is that people create orthodoxies around politics...........to quote Eric Blair;

"Orthodoxy means not thinking, not needing to think........orthodoxy is unconsciousness."

Thought we'd got past 1984 but it explains a lot of your posts, I guess?


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[cunning fergus]

thats just what i was thinking when Gove, Fox, Farage and others were campaigning, they are all about the socialist vision.

If Caroline Lucas can align herself with the EU and advocate a remain vote for progressive change within the EU, why can't I align myself with those who want out to then support politicians like John Mann, Graham Stringer, The RMT etc. to ensure out is a socialist out and not a Tory vision of out.

There is no difference, Gove, Farage etc. were a means to an end as far as I am concerned.

 

[cunning fergus]

Thought we'd got past 1984 but it explains a lot of your posts, I guess?


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I afraid not, in these days of universal deceit merely speaking the truth is a revolutionary act.

 

[cunning fergus]

Just the PLP... Not the fact that Scotland voted overwhelming to remain in the EU, or the youth of the country, and yet these are the votes he's supposed to be winning back with this socialist agenda. Just doesn't stack up does it.

I will remind you that leave won, there were more votes for leave than remain, had Corbyn kept true to his long held belief he would have been on the winning side.

As it was he is aligned to a PLP which has MPs like Tristram Hunt (snigger) who supported remain yet his working class constituents overwhelmingly voted out.

You're right, it's not stacking up is it?