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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,085


5ways

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2012
2,217
Disappointing reading many of the Remain posts this morning. Lots of 'I'm all-right Jack attitude' with little empathy for the UK unemployed or the low, semi skilled who are having their wages suppressed (according to Bank of England study) by mass immigration.

It's great if you own a business and don't care where your steady stream of cheap labour comes from or the effect it has on your fellow citizens. Not bothered if you look in from afar and just assume Brits are lazy and don't consider why so many jobs are being offered at only the minimum wage. Not bothered unless your particular sector which you once worked in wasn't awash with Europeans competing for jobs. Not bothered about demand for school places, access to healthcare, housing, other services unless it personally effects them. Couldn't care less if other peoples usually poorer neighbourhoods change beyond all recognition within a decade just as long as their part of the world is ok.

It isn't the immigrants fault that they exploit the opportunities here most of us would do the same but it is numerous governments fault for allowing this to happen it is the price of EU membership .. and will be anyone voting Remain's fault if they argue it should continue.

1% over 8 years. Wage decline much more strongly linked with the financial crisis than EU migration. Meanwhile EU migrants prop up UK tax revenue. Moreover if we leave and inward investment crashes, as we've been warned it will, those people who build buildings will find them have fewer sites to work on and fewer jobs.
 




5ways

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2012
2,217
Its both but they are separate phenomena. Indeed a lot has changed in financial services in 2007 not least as a consequence of the problems since caused by the Euro in weaker European economies. This has drawn skilled labour to London from all over Europe. These are highly motivated and very well qualified people and they are reacting to the weaknesses in their economies in a completely rational way by moving to London. It is our membership of the EU that enables them to do this and for them it is the right decision. However this creates huge competition for our youngsters and also drives up rental prices. Incidentally I don't think this is just in financial services. It is also the case in the creative industries and in all manner of skilled office jobs. A huge free market in labour has been created which is designed to attract skilled workers to areas of growth. Looks good to an economist on paper but it has huge social consequences for local people as wages are driven down and demand for public services increases. This is the problem with free markets. Employers get the benefit of cheap skilled labour without having to pay for much of the social cost (they will pay some via taxation).

Worth noting that this skilled labour's education has been paid for by their country of origin. The average EU migrant with a degree has taken from their native system and transferred their skills and tax potential to the UK for free. It is a golden goose. Also EU migrants pay into public services rather than take from them. They subsidise native Britons public services. They are much less likely to claim any benefit.
 


Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,423
Oxton, Birkenhead
You still can, stop blaming others for your failings.

This rather reminds me of Norman Tebbitt's 'Get on your bike' back in the 80s. It is not always failure in the individual, particularly when the economic system is weighted against that individual. It is difficult to compete with so many new arrivals when these new arrivals are able to work for less and are in many cases more geographically/socially mobile. The free market can be a brutal place and I really don't think that those who struggle within it should automatically be assumed to have 'failings'. Personally I would prefer to live in a better society than that.
 


5ways

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2012
2,217
Give the worker a strong and varied economy? Tied to basket case Economies of the EU and the sinking Euro?

Have a day off ffs :facepalm:

Biggest and most dynamic market in the world. 23% of global GDP, and the largest concentration of rich consumers in the world. Access is essential to the basic survival of our exporters, our farmers, our manufacturers.
 


Bladders

Twats everywhere
Jun 22, 2012
13,672
The Troubadour
Biggest and most dynamic market in the world. 23% of global GDP, and the largest concentration of rich consumers in the world. Access is essential to the basic survival of our exporters, our farmers, our manufacturers.

Whats the figure if you take us France and Germany out of the equation ?
 












Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,423
Oxton, Birkenhead
Worth noting that this skilled labour's education has been paid for by their country of origin. The average EU migrant with a degree has taken from their native system and transferred their skills and tax potential to the UK for free. It is a golden goose. Also EU migrants pay into public services rather than take from them. They subsidise native Britons public services. They are much less likely to claim any benefit.

you are right but it is contributing to large increases in generational inequality. Skilled young British workers are bearing the brunt of low wages/high rents while employers and house owners (older people) are getting that golden goose. Whether EU migrants net contribute to or take from public services is a moot point as there is huge shortage developing in education and public health which is going to have to be alleviated by future investment which is not counted in current figures as it is currently unquantifiable.
 


D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
I understand this and I also understand and very much know the frustration and despair the youth and working class currently feel. My solution to this is to grow and develop the economy and provide more, and a wider range of, jobs. Rolling up the draw bridge and reducing competitiveness for jobs, and in turn productivity, is more harmful IMHO; it isn't the simple numbers game you suggest. The best thing you can give the workers is a strong and varied economy.

They want to keep the drawbridge open at the same time of getting their products produced for the lowest possible price. This needs to start by big business changing their attitude, for example a drinks manufacturer buying his plastic bottles from China, needs to look closer to home and see if that product can be manufactured here.

If it costs a bit more to manufacture it, then so be it, in the end the drink might cost a few pence, but better jobs, British jobs will be created out of it. It is not rocket science.

I will not be lectured by big business until they start changing their attitude, and stupid politicians calling British people lazy.
 
Last edited by a moderator:


Soulman

New member
Oct 22, 2012
10,966
Sompting
Worth noting that this skilled labour's education has been paid for by their country of origin. The average EU migrant with a degree has taken from their native system and transferred their skills and tax potential to the UK for free. It is a golden goose. Also EU migrants pay into public services rather than take from them. They subsidise native Britons public services. They are much less likely to claim any benefit.

"Skilled education payed for by their country of origin"
Many times on the EU threads you have stated about wages not being affected by immigrants, many times i have stated the downturn in wages in the Construction Industry, i suppose your job may not be affected by immigration and that is why you state WRONGLY for everyone.
So you move onto another stupid assessment, let me tell you that as a timed served educated sparks, these " skilled labour's education has been paid for by their country of origin" are trained by US, the JIB send trainers out to EU countries to train up electricians. It is OUR subs that help educated thiose from another country instead of training OUR own.
Just to put your lofty and wrong view into perspective, those trained are then placed in jobs in the UK...... then after coming here the cost of training is deducted out of their wages.
Conclusion: No jobs/training for OUR own, lower wages for OUR own.
You just keep spouting and copying and pasting "facts" that suit, and arguing on things that you have little experience of other than what you read.
 






Soulman

New member
Oct 22, 2012
10,966
Sompting
So you're guessing now?

See my post above, 5 ways is a young man who is really clueless. No real "facts" very little life experience, good at copying and pasting "facts" that a deluded person likes to believe.
Some of the Remainers have valid points, some just spout out untruths and scary rubbish.
 


Soulman

New member
Oct 22, 2012
10,966
Sompting
Another shocking case of dodgy BBC reporting............. So surprising eh



The BBC used an European Union-backed professor as an independent “trade expert” for a major news item on Brexit and food prices in its main evening news show. The report on the Six O’Clock News on BBC One this Wednesday included claims that the price of food would rise if Britain votes to leave the European Union (EU). As part of that report, BBC Business Correspondent Emma Simpson interviewed Professor Catherine Barnard, asking for her analysis.


Introduced simply as a “trade expert”, Professor Barnard claimed there would be three possible scenarios for food prices if Britain votes to leave: either it remains in the Common Market which would result in “business as usual”, or it enters a new trade agreement, or there is no agreement resulting in tariffs imposed on goods.


Ms Simpson then holds up a pack or bacon, saying if the third scenario happens its price could rise by 15 pence. She then puts it to Professor Barnard that tariffs could be cut, Barnard answers: “Yes, but it would weaken the UK’s hand in any future international trade negotiations.”


At no point is Professor Barnard’s EU affiliation mentioned in the report. Instead, she is simply presented as an “expert”, with the on-screen description reading “University of Cambridge”. So who is this Professor Barnard?


Professor Catherine Barnard is Jean Monnet Chair of EU Law in the Faculty of Law at the University of Cambridge. The Jean Monnet programme was created by the European Commission with the aim of “stimulating teaching, research and reflection in the field of European integration studies” and universities throughout the world.


www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/03...used-eu-backed-prof-independent-trade-expert/


Ah the EU commission again. From the New Europeans website we learn...


Professor Catherine Barnard is the Jean Monnet Chair of EU law at the University of Cambridge and is a Fellow in Law at Trinity College, Cambridge. Catherine is a leading expert on EU internal market and employment law and she has published extensively in these fields.


Definitely not a food trade expert, then.


Can you help with our research?


The arrival of a large number of migrant workers from EU-8 Member States has changed the face of the UK’s labour market. Some employers have treated these workers with respect and have tried to meet their legal obligations. However, there is now good evidence that some employers are taking advantage of migrant workers and denying them rights under UK law, especially rights to the minimum wage and to paid annual leave. This raises questions about social justice

neweuropeans.net/article/467/enforcement-employment-rights-eu-8-migrant-workers-uk



Yes, our Catherine is looking for migrants to represent on legal aid. Nice.
 




Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,132
The arse end of Hangleton
See my post above, 5 ways is a young man who is really clueless. No real "facts" very little life experience, good at copying and pasting "facts" that a deluded person likes to believe.
Some of the Remainers have valid points, some just spout out untruths and scary rubbish.

And good at using 'facts' from an organisation who are mainly funded by the government and the EU ( note he hasn't attempted to answer why they are unbiased ).
 




Diablo

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 22, 2014
4,218
lewes
If we vote out ...will Herr T be excluded from NSC...That may convince a few undecided voters..
 








Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,889
The Fatherland
They want to keep the drawbridge open at the same time of getting their products produced for the lowest possible price. This needs to start by big business changing their attitude, for example a drinks manufacturer buying his plastic bottles from China, needs to look closer to home and see if that product can be manufactured here.

If it costs a bit more to manufacture it, then so be it, in the end the drink might cost a few pence, but better jobs, British jobs will be created out of it. It is not rocket science.

I will not be lectured by big business until they start changing their attitude, and stupid politicians calling British people lazy.

I agree with this.
 


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