Official Running Thread

[Greg Bobkin]

That pretty much is the story of my day too, but about 20 mins behind you. Started off reasonably well, but began to slow around mile 15 and died on my ars at the power station (who's idea was it have mile 21 over there!). Last 6 miles very tough and ended up 4:28 when I wanted 4:10. London this weekend and trying to think tactics, probably going off slower is a good idea. I hope now that i have 26 miles in my legs, it will come as less of a shock to my mind/body this Sunday! Any advice welcome, or anyone else doing both got thoughts?

I normally don't mind the power station – the family are normally there, which gives me a boost – but I was well gone by then yesterday. I'm running London too, and trying to convince myself that it will go a lot better and that maybe not the planned 3:45, but sub-4 is on. I've already decided to drop to 9min/miles from 8:30s – even though I'm normally really comfortable at the faster pace.

I think yesterday proves that anything (good or bad) can happen on the day, so to a point, it's not worth worrying about.

Well done for Brighton and good luck for VLM.

 

[Curious Orange]

Bugger! I've somehow managed to strain a hamstring I wouldn't mind if I'd been going fast, or hadn't been stretching...

No running for me for a few days, I currently have my leg raised by propping it on top of the computer, and have nicked the kids cold compresses (Mr Bump and Peppa Pig).

 

[knocky1]

I was similar with mine. The morning after the first run in them I had terrible problems with my Achilles' so decided to give them a miss.

I brought both them and the Nimbus's to Brighton, and, because the conditions were so promising, gave them an airing as have been stuck in the 51-53 minute 10k zone for a year.
P
On the day they did make a positive difference, as did the weather, flat course and support from the crowds.

When wearing a race shoe the faster pace usually changes foot strike from the heel, to mid foot and toes. This toeing off can lead to Achilles problems, so it may not be the shoes.

 

[djdixon44]

Hi guys,

I did post this in a separate thread but there are a few events in Bexhill on Sunday 18th May if anyone is interested?

Please visit www.starfishraces.co.uk for more information - there's some great team events also!

 

[knocky1]

Here's the adjusted data based on a 21 minute 5k.

Z1 Active Recovery > 9:25
Z2 Endurance 8:06 - 9:25
Z3 Tempo 7:16 - 8:06
Z4 Threshold 6:48 - 7:16
Z5 VO2 Max 6:24 - 6:48
Z6 Anaerobic < 6:24

Putting my marathon to bed and thinking to the summer. Final analysis. It's the zones what done it.
Next time will train nearer to these zones. The marathon was great for me. Got nearly everything right. Food intake and hydration perfect. Clear run with plenty of space dropping of red group. Pace 8:30 (50 seconds off last month's half marathon pace) easy to maintain. Relaxed and happy. Then mile 19 as you stopped to support me the upper thighs had gone. It was not the wall, as I have hit that before , and the race photos show me in no more than normal Knocky faced discomfort. Drank and ate my way round the rest of the course in 4:07.
Must be lack of race pace training on flat ground. Pure and simple.
Perversely I still enjoyed the run and having to deal with the thighs wanting to switch off. Unable to walk for 2 days which is also unusual for such a time.
The good news is next year will be no Brighton Marathon but a few full out halfs and perhaps a Downland marathon as a training run. I will then make a return in 2018. So [MENTION=26634]Simgull[/MENTION] will have to lend me the flag to support you all in 2017.

It's addictive this running lark. Especially when you get beaten by Everyman and his dog!

 

[Guinness Boy]

The DOMS is largely gone now to reveal actual potential problems. Very tight right calf and left quad. Will be nursing myself very gently through the next two weeks or so.

 

[Curious Orange]

The DOMS is largely gone now to reveal actual potential problems. Very tight right calf and left quad. Will be nursing myself very gently through the next two weeks or so.

I feel your pain. It'd be a lovely day for a run, but there is no way I should try with a sore hamstring. I guess I'll do some core strengthening instead

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Putting my marathon to bed and thinking to the summer. Final analysis. It's the zones what done it.
Next time will train nearer to these zones. The marathon was great for me. Got nearly everything right. Food intake and hydration perfect. Clear run with plenty of space dropping of red group. Pace 8:30 (50 seconds off last month's half marathon pace) easy to maintain. Relaxed and happy. Then mile 19 as you stopped to support me the upper thighs had gone. It was not the wall, as I have hit that before , and the race photos show me in no more than normal Knocky faced discomfort. Drank and ate my way round the rest of the course in 4:07.
Must be lack of race pace training on flat ground. Pure and simple.
Perversely I still enjoyed the run and having to deal with the thighs wanting to switch off. Unable to walk for 2 days which is also unusual for such a time.
The good news is next year will be no Brighton Marathon but a few full out halfs and perhaps a Downland marathon as a training run. I will then make a return in 2018. So [MENTION=26634]Simgull[/MENTION] will have to lend me the flag to support you all in 2017.

It's addictive this running lark. Especially when you get beaten by Everyman and his dog!

Er, I beg to differ. Having run that fecking stretch along the front about 40-50 times of times in the last year, I couldn't quite believe how I saved my worst performance on it on race day.

I ran a similar time on Sunday to IOW last October, when I managed to keep running until past mile 24. This time I didn't even make it to 16. The pace was a *bit* quicker, but nothing I'm not used to doing in training. THAT is the frustrating thing for me, because everyone else says it's a great time...

I know what you mean about leg ache though. I've run near-marathon training runs, and not felt hardly anything, but they are just getting back to normal now.

Jeez, London better go well, or else I'll be in a right old mood

 

[knocky1]

I ran a similar time on Sunday to IOW last October, when I managed to keep running until past mile 24. This time I didn't even make it to 16. The pace was a *bit* quicker, but nothing I'm not used to doing in training. THAT is the frustrating thing for me, because everyone else says it's a great time...

I know what you mean about leg ache though. I've run near-marathon training runs, and not felt hardly anything, but they are just getting back to normal now.

Good luck in London. I know what you mean about times. This is a frequent marathon conversation:

What time did you do?

You answer and they don't listen but say "That's a good time?" Winding you up immediately because your not happy with your time.
Then they say "So and so's second cousin did it in 3:15, one month after childbirth and lactating heavily"
Or "my mate did it in 3:40 and stopped for a 10 minute sh*t on the way round". .....and so forth.
All part of the great insanity of running a marathon I guess.

The leg pain is strange. It hit my arch rival and his son as well. It was the first time in 4 years that we didn't walk back to Hove Lagoon for a drink in the Anglers Club. We all had to crawl into a cab. Three different training regimes and three different race outcomes.

 

[dazzer6666]

Putting my marathon to bed and thinking to the summer. Final analysis. It's the zones what done it.
Next time will train nearer to these zones. The marathon was great for me. Got nearly everything right. Food intake and hydration perfect. Clear run with plenty of space dropping of red group. Pace 8:30 (50 seconds off last month's half marathon pace) easy to maintain. Relaxed and happy. Then mile 19 as you stopped to support me the upper thighs had gone. It was not the wall, as I have hit that before , and the race photos show me in no more than normal Knocky faced discomfort. Drank and ate my way round the rest of the course in 4:07.
Must be lack of race pace training on flat ground. Pure and simple.
Perversely I still enjoyed the run and having to deal with the thighs wanting to switch off. Unable to walk for 2 days which is also unusual for such a time.
The good news is next year will be no Brighton Marathon but a few full out halfs and perhaps a Downland marathon as a training run. I will then make a return in 2018. So [MENTION=26634]Simgull[/MENTION] will have to lend me the flag to support you all in 2017.

It's addictive this running lark. Especially when you get beaten by Everyman and his dog!

Speed endurance training is the key to a good marathon according to my guru. This means long runs with marathon-(or faster) paced segments. For example, 15 miles easy, 5 miles at half marathon pace and a mile flat out. Harder than it sounds (you spend 15 miles thinking about how hard the last 6 are going to be), plus long intervals in high zones (things like 2 x 3 miles at 5k pace). Did you do enough longer stuff ? Sounds like it might have been conditioning. So much to get right for it all to click.....too bloody complicated !

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Speed endurance training is the key to a good marathon according to my guru. This means long runs with marathon-(or faster) paced segments. For example, 15 miles easy, 5 miles at half marathon pace and a mile flat out. Harder than it sounds (you spend 15 miles thinking about how hard the last 6 are going to be), plus long intervals in high zones (things like 2 x 3 miles at 5k pace). Did you do enough longer stuff ? Sounds like it might have been conditioning. So much to get right for it all to click.....too bloody complicated !

Cracking! I've got a few days to fit a few of those sessions in

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Good luck in London. I know what you mean about times. This is a frequent marathon conversation:

What time did you do?

You answer and they don't listen but say "That's a good time?" Winding you up immediately because your not happy with your time.
Then they say "So and so's second cousin did it in 3:15, one month after childbirth and lactating heavily"
Or "my mate did it in 3:40 and stopped for a 10 minute sh*t on the way round". .....and so forth.
All part of the great insanity of running a marathon I guess.

The leg pain is strange. It hit my arch rival and his son as well. It was the first time in 4 years that we didn't walk back to Hove Lagoon for a drink in the Anglers Club. We all had to crawl into a cab. Three different training regimes and three different race outcomes.

Not sure if it is related, but I'm coming to the conclusion that one of the – if not THE – biggest problem was dehydration. I took on water round the course, but in the week before, I wasn't drinking much of it at all. Maybe too much coffee too? So I'm filling myself up with it this week, in the hope that it will help on Sunday.

 

[Simgull]

Not sure if it is related, but I'm coming to the conclusion that one of the – if not THE – biggest problem was dehydration. I took on water round the course, but in the week before, I wasn't drinking much of it at all. Maybe too much coffee too? So I'm filling myself up with it this week, in the hope that it will help on Sunday.

Interesting, [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] and I were discussing this last night. I suspect the humidity was pretty low on Sunday and this combined with intense, warm sunshine and a strong breeze could have caused a lot of runners to become dehydrated. There are lots of people talking about unexpected cramp and suffering towards the end of the race.

The flag is available for hire if anyone wants to support you, me and various others on Sunday. With Palace being otherwise occupied we should n't see too many of them around!

Finally if anyone wants to track me on Sunday on the App my race number is 46583

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Interesting, [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] and I were discussing this last night. I suspect the humidity was pretty low on Sunday and this combined with intense, warm sunshine and a strong breeze could have caused a lot of runners to become dehydrated. There are lots of people talking about unexpected cramp and suffering towards the end of the race.


Finally if anyone wants to track me on Sunday on the App my race number is 46583

I think that, and the fact that it was later than I'm used to running (so therefore different conditions) made a difference.

And I'm 43400.

 

[Bad Ash]

Speed endurance training is the key to a good marathon according to my guru. This means long runs with marathon-(or faster) paced segments. For example, 15 miles easy, 5 miles at half marathon pace and a mile flat out. Harder than it sounds (you spend 15 miles thinking about how hard the last 6 are going to be), plus long intervals in high zones (things like 2 x 3 miles at 5k pace). Did you do enough longer stuff ? Sounds like it might have been conditioning. So much to get right for it all to click.....too bloody complicated !

Is that right, 2 x 3 miles (4.9k) at 5k pace? Is that possible?

 

[knocky1]

Speed endurance training is the key to a good marathon according to my guru. This means long runs with marathon-(or faster) paced segments. For example, 15 miles easy, 5 miles at half marathon pace and a mile flat out. Harder than it sounds (you spend 15 miles thinking about how hard the last 6 are going to be), plus long intervals in high zones (things like 2 x 3 miles at 5k pace). Did you do enough longer stuff ? Sounds like it might have been conditioning. So much to get right for it all to click.....too bloody complicated !

I did 20x2 and an 18 over the Downs. Dehydration wasn't a problem I nailed that. 5 -8 pints of water everyday leading up to race and a 5 am start on Sunday to drink 3 pints of water with enough time to pee out before 9. Drank up to, before and during run at every water station. It was a lack of training at 8:00 to 8:30 pace but as I said to you on Sunday I have been in endurance mode since January and could not have taken that on in training.

The other factor is I had to risk failure to get sub 3:45 and it happened. I would not feel any better if I had paced slower and got 3:52. What I do know is that I have come out of this training plan in much better 5k form than last year. That was the main purpose. Anything under last years 20:23 will make it all worthwhile..........

 

[dazzer6666]

I did 20x2 and an 18 over the Downs. Dehydration wasn't a problem I nailed that. 5 -8 pints of water everyday leading up to race and a 5 am start on Sunday to drink 3 pints of water with enough time to pee out before 9. Drank up to, before and during run at every water station. It was a lack of training at 8:00 to 8:30 pace but as I said to you on Sunday I have been in endurance mode since January and could not have taken that on in training.

The other factor is I had to risk failure to get sub 3:45 and it happened. I would not feel any better if I had paced slower and got 3:52. What I do know is that I have come out of this training plan in much better 5k form than last year. That was the main purpose. Anything under last years 20:23 will make it all worthwhile..........

You'll smash that easily - good news as I'll need a pacer if I ever get any pace back

Is that right, 2 x 3 miles (4.9k) at 5k pace? Is that possible?

It is according to my (git of a) coach - to be fair just off 5k pace but not much.

 

[knocky1]

B******s! I'm in it for next year. Not for unfinished business but because I won't be able to watch everyone else doing it.

 

[dazzer6666]

B******s! I'm in it for next year. Not for unfinished business but because I won't be able to watch everyone else doing it.

You know it makes sense Rodney

You guys need to get out onto one of the trail marathons, particularly whilst you have your 'marathon fitness'. There are some brilliant events locally :

Three Forts - entries close in a few days, cracking route, start at Hillbarn Rec in Worthing

http://www.threefortschallenge.org.uk/

Arun River Run (May) and the Lunar-Tic (July) from these guys....the Lunar-Tic is great fun. Easy 3 laps from Shoreham to Upper Beeding on both river banks, half in the dark

http://www.sussextrailevents.com/

Beachy Head - everyone has to do this once - just a big happy jog/walk round

http://www.visiteastbourne.com/events/BeachyHeadMarathon.aspx

Head to the hills....so much more fun than tarmac-pounding and much easier on the body (and no-one gives much of a sh*t about times either)

 

[knocky1]

You know it makes sense Rodney

You guys need to get out onto one of the trail marathons, particularly whilst you have your 'marathon fitness'. There are some brilliant events locally :

Three Forts - entries close in a few days, cracking route, start at Hillbarn Rec in Worthing

http://www.threefortschallenge.org.uk/

Arun River Run (May) and the Lunar-Tic (July) from these guys....the Lunar-Tic is great fun. Easy 3 laps from Shoreham to Upper Beeding on both river banks, half in the dark

http://www.sussextrailevents.com/

Beachy Head - everyone has to do this once - just a big happy jog/walk round

http://www.visiteastbourne.com/events/BeachyHeadMarathon.aspx

Head to the hills....so much more fun than tarmac-pounding and much easier on the body (and no-one gives much of a sh*t about times either)

Tempting but a few weeks rest then onto 10k training for the July 13 showdown. Anyone suggest any plans or books?

Out of interest a Hove Parkrunner, Cathy 52 years old, runs 5k in 20:30 and just finished 15th woman at BM in 3:12. That is an incredible effort.