Would you vote for bombing ISIS in Syria?

[pb21]

Surely if the Chair of the Defence Commitee is against it, it's probably not a good thing.

Or he is a terrorist sympathiser.

 

[spring hall convert]

Is that a bad thing ?

For me no.

For the electorate at large, perhaps.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'm very, very fond of Alan Johnson. Former home secretary as well. Very fair man from what I've seen.

Isn't he a bit 'everyone's favourite uncle' though?

He's got a hard edge too ...

 

[symyjym]

In Iraq we've supported a government and their military in taking back control of their country - in principle at least, not altogether successful obviously. So the destruction of IS in Iraq, or defeating them in certain locations will mean control is taken back by an entity you can deal with.

What exactly is the plan when we achieve certain objectives in Syria? If ISIS are defeated, or lose control of towns or regions, then who takes over? What is the power vacuum, who steps in? What are we bombing to achieve, destroy ISIS then just have to deal with Assad, what is the objective if ISIS are effectively destroyed - support the rebels, enter into a conflict against the Russians who support Assad? I don't feel there is a credible long term objective here, or being presented with a strategic plan of what happens if the bombing is successful.

I don't see the bombing in anyway countering the terrorist threat which can be carried out by a small cell of dangerous people.

A peace roadmap and ceasefire, excluding with Daesh and affiliated so called rebel groups including Al Nusra, should be a precondition before UK airstrikes. Our government, the US, Saudi, Turkey and other Sunni states cannot accept the fact that Assad has to play a part in its transition. We haven't got a plan if Assad walked out tomorrow, and if there was a plan where everyone would be safe, I am sure he would leave.

Daesh will use human shields and use underground networks for themselves. We could very easily end up doing exactly what Assad is accused of doing.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

We haven't got a plan if Assad walked out tomorrow, and if there was a plan where everyone would be safe, I am sure he would leave.

WTF ? Assed doesn't care about anything other than retaining power does he ? Or have I missed something. And what inside knowledge do you have that makes you "sure" ?

And I don't think we will be dropping Barrel Bombs.

 

[symyjym]

WTF ? Assed doesn't care about anything other than retaining power does he ? Or have I missed something. And what inside knowledge do you have that makes you "sure" ?

And I don't think we will be dropping Barrel Bombs.

First of all you will have to explain to me what would happen in Syria if Assad left this afternoon. What would the scenario be?

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

First of all you will have to explain to me what would happen in Syria if Assad left this afternoon. What would the scenario be?

If the nutters have arrived I am off. Very interesting thread chaps.

 

[symyjym]

If the nutters have arrived I am off. Very interesting thread chaps.

I don't understand your detailed scenario. Can you expand on this?

 

[Ernest]

Yep. Grew up in Notting Hill - his mother was Liverpool and married a ne'er do well who left the family home and his mother tried to keep up appearances before her early death. Social services allowed his older sister to effectively look after him from early teens. She was a hero.

A well balanced-rounded chap. Should have been Labour leader.

no he shouldn't he is a PRATT who couldn't lead a DOG

 

[Albumen]

Here comes Tim. Yes or No? He'll vote for the third option.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Quite a good speech. Lib Dem's support the government. There huge number of MP's will swing the vote

 

[Ernest]

Quite a good speech. Lib Dem's support the government. There huge number of MP's will swing the vote

That's the rest of them wiped out at the next election

 

[JC Footy Genius]

That's the rest of them wiped out at the next election

An even bigger Tory majority then

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I don't understand your detailed scenario. Can you expand on this?

Sorry it was a bit rude. But what has a scenario that is not going to happen got to do with anything.

Best to leave it there.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

no he shouldn't he is a PRATT who couldn't lead a DOG

Excellent. That is a resounding endorsement for Johnson.

 

[symyjym]

Sorry it was a bit rude. But what has a scenario that is not going to happen got to do with anything.

Best to leave it there.

Not really.

But I will help you, Assad has a choice and has got to consider what would happen if he left. I would suggest that what would follow would be a mass exodus of millions of Alawate’s, Shia’s, Christian’s and other minority groups and the 120,000 army would break ranks and flee. Anyone who can't escape Syria would be slaughtered, followed by a battle between all the factions with Daesh winning and taking over. It also vital for a transition to take place with the state institutions intact.

Anyone who thinks that Syria would suddenly become a democratic secular country if Assad leaves is living on another planet and is the equivalent of cutting off ones nose to spite ones face.

If you have a different scenario I am all ears?

 

[beorhthelm]

But I will help you, Assad has a choice and has got to consider what would happen if he left. I would suggest that what would follow would be a mass exodus of millions of Alawate’s, Shia’s, Christian’s and other minority groups and the 120,000 army would break ranks and flee. Anyone who can't escape Syria would be slaughtered, followed by a battle between all the factions with Daesh winning and taking over. It also vital for a transition to take place with the state institutions intact.

Anyone who thinks that Syria would suddenly become a democratic secular country if Assad leaves is living on another planet and is the equivalent of cutting off ones nose to spite ones face.

If you have a different scenario I am all ears?

that's a sad indictment of the Alawites and other groups that they have no other potential leader among them. the problem with your position is that Assad is not an option either for the millions flee him and his regime in the first place. anyone that thinks supporting him will lead to a democracy or even simply a peaceful day to day existence has ignored why we are where we are.

 

[LargeHadronZugzwang]

In shops for Christmas: A History of Failed Militarism from the Lost Army of Cambyses to the Bogus Battalions of Cameron

 

[symyjym]

that's a sad indictment of the Alawites and other groups that they have no other potential leader among them. the problem with your position is that Assad is not an option either for the millions flee him and his regime in the first place. anyone that thinks supporting him will lead to a democracy or even simply a peaceful day to day existence has ignored why we are where we are.

That's not true, I said if they stay they will be slaughtered.

I have not ignored why we are here today. http://www.albawaba.com/loop/wikile...w-us-plans-destabilize-syria-back-2006-744678

A WikiLeaks document of an alleged telegram sent from Damascus appears to show the US had big plans when it came to Syria — long before the conflict began in 2011.

In the 2006 document classified as “secret,” the US allegedly wrote plans to want to destabilize the Syrian government.

That in itself may not be very interesting; the US is not exactly known for its support for President Bashar al-Assad. The whole country has been listed as a “state sponsor of terrorism” since 1979. The devil, however, is in the details.

There have been several conspiracy theories when it comes to the US involvement with Daesh (ISIS) — creating the militant group to overthrow Assad and destabilize the region. This document appears to support some of those theories. https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06DAMASCUS5399_a.html

My belief is that Syria was a compensation package to Sunni states for what they lost in Iraq.

Assad has got to go at some point, but there has to be a democratic secular constitution agreed by all parties first.

 

[NooBHA]

Corbyn needs to stabilise and rebuild his party first (he's got another 18 months to solve that), and forcing those that aren't on his side to vote will only coast the party more damage. And would it be a better victory if a free vote outvoted Cameron? A big if.

Jeremy Corbyn whom I support a great deal should never have given Labour politicians a free vote. He is leader of the Labour party and as such he should have ensured they followed his way of thinking. I totally understand why he didn't do that but by not doing so he has condemned some Syrian civilian to death. Even if only one civilian dies he has blood on his hands like the rest of them.

I am horrified at what is about to happen and dread reading about all the name calling and blame game as soon as we are attacked on the mainland here again like Paris was recently. Corbyn will say ''I told you so'' and Cameron will say ''it would have happened anyway'' Neither of those statements will console the families of the people who may become victims.

This world is quite shambolic at the moment but I suppose there have been wars since the beginning of time but the world wide media access means we are exposed to the knowledge of them a lot more now