CORBYN, McDONNELL AND LIVINGSTONE.

[Buzzer]

I used to think NSC had its fair share of socialists but I'm now thinking how far it's gone to the right. It just shows how far to the centre Blair was when elected. He was popular before and during the early days concerning the war with Iraq that hardly anyone on here argued against btw.
It's a fair bet that Corbyn won't be prime minister but it's outed all those who hate and fear debate and just launch ridiculous attacks upon the man. So he feels uneasy with events that would arise to a shoot and kill policy on suspected (or confirmed if that makes you happier) terrorists and would not consider pushing a button to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian people.
The thing is he might just try and engage with the enemy before it got to that............oh shit he tried that with the IRA didn't he.... Good job old Mo had the same ideas.

I think there are plenty of Labour politicians who are solid centre-left and would give the Tories a decent run for their money: Dan Jarvis, Alan Johnson, Chris Leslie, Yvette Cooper are a few that come to mind. It's just that right now most people look right-wing compared to Corbyn and McDonnell. Yes, the media are relentless and ruthless with Corbyn but it also doesn't help that a lot of people on Twitter are making the Labour Party look even more left-wing by calling those who disagree with them red tories.

Labour need to win back people who voted UKIP and Tory at the last election. Just how are they going to do that with the current leadership and the well-meaning but frankly counter-productive social media army that does things like this (from the Jeremy Corbyn for PM Facebook page)

Ed Miliband FFS!

 

[alfredmizen]

I used to think NSC had its fair share of socialists but I'm now thinking how far it's gone to the right. It just shows how far to the centre Blair was when elected. He was popular before and during the early days concerning the war with Iraq that hardly anyone on here argued against btw.
It's a fair bet that Corbyn won't be prime minister but it's outed all those who hate and fear debate and just launch ridiculous attacks upon the man. So he feels uneasy with events that would arise to a shoot and kill policy on suspected (or confirmed if that makes you happier) terrorists and would not consider pushing a button to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian people.
The thing is he might just try and engage with the enemy before it got to that............oh shit he tried that with the IRA didn't he.... Good job old Mo had the same ideas.

Thats it in a nutshell, he wasn't ''engaging'' with the enemy and you know it , he was showing support , as he did all the time they were murdering british soldiers and civilians, neither he or mcdonnell EVER took part in any peace talks nor did they have a mandate to, they played no part in the good friday agreement and if they were interested in ''engaging'' with terrorists, why did they never meet with any loyalist paramilitaries ??

 

[nwgull]

Without wading through a 15 page thread of myopic bickering, has it been mentioned how shit and badly fitting Corbyn's suits are? He looks like a badly dressed geography teacher.

 

[Questions]

Thats it in a nutshell, he wasn't ''engaging'' with the enemy and you know it , he was showing support , as he did all the time they were murdering british soldiers and civilians, neither he or mcdonnell EVER took part in any peace talks nor did they have a mandate to, they played no part in the good friday agreement and if they were interested in ''engaging'' with terrorists, why did they never meet with any loyalist paramilitaries ??

I've obviously cut and pasted this so that his exact words are there. I have always believed in a united Ireland but never once would I have condoned the Provos actions here or their. I'm not disrespecting the British troops who were over there so don't come at me from that angle either in your reply. My wife spent many years over there as a daughter of a soldier so I know a little of the troubles trust me. How did the good Friday agreement come around if not with dialogue.
I know the history of Ireland Alfred. Corbyn never killed a civilian or a soldier. I don't know why he didn't speak to the UDF.
................
The Labour leader told the BBC One Andrew Marr programme: "I don't want violence, I don't want killing, I don't want all the horrors that go with it."
Mr Corbyn has faced strong criticism for bringing members of the IRA to the House of Commons during the 1980s.

But he told the programme everyone he met had been former prisoners who had completed their sentences and the goal had been to open dialogue and reach a political solution.

Mr Corbyn said: "Yes, I did make myself very unpopular with some people by a preparedness to reach out to the Republican tradition in Ireland, to say ultimately this war is unwinnable by either side, there is never going to be a military (answer) - therefore there has to be a political dialogue.

"At the same time, secretly, the British government was also engaged in that and then eventually in 1994 we got the first ceasefire."

The Labour leader is due to speak at a conference fringe meeting organised by Sinn Fein later today.

Asked if he was less critical of IRA violence than British military action, Mr Corbyn said: "The violence was wrong on all sides and I have said so all along. My whole point was if we are to bring about a peace process, you weren't going to achieve it by military means."

The Labour leader acknowledged his long-running statement for a united Ireland, but added: "Quite honestly, the peace process has brought about a huge step forward.

 

[Questions]

G

I think there are plenty of Labour politicians who are solid centre-left and would give the Tories a decent run for their money: Dan Jarvis, Alan Johnson, Chris Leslie, Yvette Cooper are a few that come to mind. It's just that right now most people look right-wing compared to Corbyn and McDonnell. Yes, the media are relentless and ruthless with Corbyn but it also doesn't help that a lot of people on Twitter are making the Labour Party look even more left-wing by calling those who disagree with them red tories.

Labour need to win back people who voted UKIP and Tory at the last election. Just how are they going to do that with the current leadership and the well-meaning but frankly counter-productive social media army that does things like this (from the Jeremy Corbyn for PM Facebook page)

Ed Miliband FFS!

It's about winning elections isn't it ? Well labour has moved so far to the right - admittedly the worlds moved on so that's fair to a degree - but although I still voted for them they had stopped standing for so much that I believed in as a young man. I'd vote for Corbyn but I know I'm voting for defeat. I can't come to terms with the prostituting of a party to gain power though. If that's what the labour MPs really believe in then I'm the dinosaur but I can't help it.
And any more back chat and I'll have that avatar off you mate.

 

[alfredmizen]

I've obviously cut and pasted this so that his exact words are there. I have always believed in a united Ireland but never once would I have condoned the Provos actions here or their. I'm not disrespecting the British troops who were over there so don't come at me from that angle either in your reply. My wife spent many years over there as a daughter of a soldier so I know a little of the troubles trust me. How did the good Friday agreement come around if not with dialogue.
I know the history of Ireland Alfred. Corbyn never killed a civilian or a soldier. I don't know why he didn't speak to the UDF.
................
The Labour leader told the BBC One Andrew Marr programme: "I don't want violence, I don't want killing, I don't want all the horrors that go with it."
Mr Corbyn has faced strong criticism for bringing members of the IRA to the House of Commons during the 1980s.

But he told the programme everyone he met had been former prisoners who had completed their sentences and the goal had been to open dialogue and reach a political solution.

Mr Corbyn said: "Yes, I did make myself very unpopular with some people by a preparedness to reach out to the Republican tradition in Ireland, to say ultimately this war is unwinnable by either side, there is never going to be a military (answer) - therefore there has to be a political dialogue.

"At the same time, secretly, the British government was also engaged in that and then eventually in 1994 we got the first ceasefire."

The Labour leader is due to speak at a conference fringe meeting organised by Sinn Fein later today.

Asked if he was less critical of IRA violence than British military action, Mr Corbyn said: "The violence was wrong on all sides and I have said so all along. My whole point was if we are to bring about a peace process, you weren't going to achieve it by military means."

The Labour leader acknowledged his long-running statement for a united Ireland, but added: "Quite honestly, the peace process has brought about a huge step forward.

Your post says absolutely nothing , its just a tired rehashing of excuses that he has made since he got a whiff of power , it doesnt answer my question of why he never ''engaged'' the Loyalist paramilitaries(uvf and uda/uff btw not udf, so you dont know that much), he makes mealy mouthed statements that the ''violence was wrong on all sides'' , do me a favour , youre defending the indefensible with corbyn and mcdonnell, as i have stated all along , they didnt talk to the IRA about peace, they met them to show support , the two bob c*nt corbyn held a minutes silence for the provos killed while attempting to kill the RUC men at loughall, which is more than he did for any squaddie killed over there, he couldnt even make up his mind whether he was going to wear a red poppy until very recently ffs.

 

[Surf's Up]

Without wading through a 15 page thread of myopic bickering, has it been mentioned how shit and badly fitting Corbyn's suits are? He looks like a badly dressed geography teacher.

Don't be deceived - Corbyn's image is as carefully designed as any merchant banker's or Tory grandee's. And he may look like a geography teacher but unfortunately he's not bright enough to be one.

 

[Buzzer]

Asked if he was less critical of IRA violence than British military action, Mr Corbyn said: "The violence was wrong on all sides and I have said so all along. .

He's telling bare-faced lies there.

 

[Questions]

He's telling bare-faced lies there.

Where is that from Buzzer ?

 

[alfredmizen]

Where is that from Buzzer ?

the sunday express in 1987.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=j...UICCgC&biw=1569&bih=746#imgrc=CJpG75jtaPO_aM:

 

[nwgull]

Don't be deceived - Corbyn's image is as carefully designed as any merchant banker's or Tory grandee's. And he may look like a geography teacher but unfortunately he's not bright enough to be one.

I can't believe that the people behind image and campaigning in the Labour Party have cultivated such a look. Surely they know that it'll lose far more votes from the middle England voters than it'll gain.

Kinnock had all the requirements of a strong leader, but probably lost thousands of marginal votes due to one thing that couldn't really be changed: he was ginger. In comparison, how hard would it be for Jezza to get himself 2-3 decent suits?

 

[Buzzer]

Where is that from Buzzer ?

Sunday Express, 17th May 1987. http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/no...od-in-honour-of-dead-ira-terrorists-1-7008757

Corbyn attended the Wolfe Tone Society meeting 7 years in a row in the 80s. The official programme for the 1988 event held one week after the IRA murdered three British servicemen in the Netherlands, states that “force of arms is the only method capable of bringing about a free and united Socialist Ireland.” Corbyn used the event to attack the Anglo-Irish Agreement, the precursor of the peace process. He said it had resulted in no improvement in the lives of the people of Northern Ireland, adding: “It strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the 26 counties, and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.”

And even more damning is the news that he was general secretary of an editorial board of a magazine that mocked murdered Tory MPs and praised the Brighton bombing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...rbyn-and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

He was popular before and during the early days concerning the war with Iraq that hardly anyone on here argued against btw.

Are you sure about that Questions ? There was a lot of argument against it as far as I recall.

(mind you my memory is not great ..................)

 

[Questions]

B

Are you sure about that Questions ? There was a lot of argument against it as far as I recall.

(mind you my memory is not great ..................)

Ok , a lot more seem against it now..... If you know what i mean.

 

[mona]

Emerson, Lake and Palmer!

 

[alfredmizen]

Sunday Express, 17th May 1987. http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/no...od-in-honour-of-dead-ira-terrorists-1-7008757

Corbyn attended the Wolfe Tone Society meeting 7 years in a row in the 80s. The official programme for the 1988 event held one week after the IRA murdered three British servicemen in the Netherlands, states that “force of arms is the only method capable of bringing about a free and united Socialist Ireland.” Corbyn used the event to attack the Anglo-Irish Agreement, the precursor of the peace process. He said it had resulted in no improvement in the lives of the people of Northern Ireland, adding: “It strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the 26 counties, and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.”

And even more damning is the news that he was general secretary of an editorial board of a magazine that mocked murdered Tory MPs and praised the Brighton bombing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...rbyn-and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html

Ive already posted this on here mate , all of the corbynistas managed to turn a blind eye to it .

 

[Questions]

Sunday Express, 17th May 1987. http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/no...od-in-honour-of-dead-ira-terrorists-1-7008757

Corbyn attended the Wolfe Tone Society meeting 7 years in a row in the 80s. The official programme for the 1988 event held one week after the IRA murdered three British servicemen in the Netherlands, states that “force of arms is the only method capable of bringing about a free and united Socialist Ireland.” Corbyn used the event to attack the Anglo-Irish Agreement, the precursor of the peace process. He said it had resulted in no improvement in the lives of the people of Northern Ireland, adding: “It strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the 26 counties, and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.”

And even more damning is the news that he was general secretary of an editorial board of a magazine that mocked murdered Tory MPs and praised the Brighton bombing.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...rbyn-and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html

That is not taken from Hansards is it ? The full manuscript is reproduced in the Belfast Newsletter but I can't put anything up as my iPad keeps crashing on that site. I cannot apologise for everything Corbyn has said in his life no more than I can anyone else but try and read the full text Buzzer.

 

[alfredmizen]

That is not taken from Hansards is it ? The full manuscript is reproduced in the Belfast Newsletter but I can't put anything up as my iPad keeps crashing on that site. I cannot apologise for everything Corbyn has said in his life no more than I can anyone else but try and read the full text Buzzer.

There you go, how exactly, do you think this changes anything ??

''07:00Wednesday 14 October 2015

Jeremy Corbyn believed he was standing up for “Irish independence” when he hailed a gang of IRA men who died while trying to blow up a police station.

The new Labour leader also moved to deflect security fears after inviting republican figures to the Commons in the 1980s by pointing out that the blueprints of the building were already available to them.
Following fresh revelations of Mr Corbyn’s connections with pre-ceasefire republicans in the Sunday Telegraph, the News Letter is able to shed new light on two of the existing controversies about his past actions, including one of his earliest recorded clashes with unionism.


While he has condemned violence, when asked recently to condemn the actions of the IRA he was reluctant to do so – see this audio clip of an interview on the Nolan Show:http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/no...ter-to-corbyn-over-northern-ireland-1-6957328

One frequently reported claim from his past is that Mr Corbyn stood in honour of eight members of an IRA gang who had been shot dead by the SAS in Loughgall in 1987 (as well as a civilian, who was wrongly targeted by the SAS).

The News Letter has searched for the original source of this claim, and found only a short reference to it in a publication called Politics Today, listed by Google Books as belonging to Conservative Central Office, 1988.

Politics Today in turn says that the story stems from an edition of the Sunday Express on May 17, 1987.

The British Library has provided the News Letter with a copy of the paper’s front page from that date.

It reads (under the headline ‘MP hails IRA dead’): “Mr Jeremy Corbyn joined a 200-strong audience at London’s Conway Hall in paying tribute to the terrorists.

“Mr Corbyn, MP for Islington North, attacked the government’s Ulster policy and said troops should be pulled out of the Province.

“He told the meeting of the Wolfe Tone Society: ‘I’m happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland’.”

Another of the criticisms often made of Mr Corbyn is that in 1984, the year after he had been elected, he was responsible for bringing republican figures into the House of Commons for a meeting.

It happened not long after the IRA had attempted to wipe out the upper echelons of the Government in the Brighton bombing.

By trawling through the archives of Hansard (the official record of Commons debates), the News Letter can show that the decision stirred the ire of a string of unionists at the time – including the Rev Ian Paisley.

Rev Paisley told the House on December 20, 1984: “Every right-thinking person in Northern Ireland utterly abhorred the action taken by the honourable member for Islington North when he brought into the House Linda Quigley, who has been convicted as a member of the IRA.

“She said that she supported the IRA’s view that the British Government were a legitimate target. Therefore, she supported the bombing at Brighton, when an attempt was made to murder the Government.

“It must be utterly abhorrent to all people that an honourable member brought such a person into the House.”

The then-MP for North Antrim went on to say that “Sinn Fein should be proscribed, no matter how many votes it receives”.

Mr Corbyn rose to speak, but the UUP’s Ken Maginnis refused to yield to him.

“I note that his pen portrait in the parliamentary year book states that he likes animals,” said Mr Maginnis.

“I am not one lightly or irresponsibly to use the analogy that I am about to offer to the House, but the IRA members whom the honourable gentleman brought into the House are animals in the worst possible sense of the word.”

William McCrea chipped in to add: “They are vermin.”

Mr Corbyn replied: “Is the honourable gentleman seriously suggesting that those who come into the House as visitors should in some sense be restricted?

“Is he suggesting further that there should be controls on those who come through the doors of the House? Is he saying that members of this place do not have a right to talk to people from Northern Ireland, or anywhere in Britain, about conditions in prisons and their particular political views?”

Mr Maginnis stated that Mr Corbyn had brought to the House Gerry Adams (then an abstentionist MP), as well as Linda Quigley and a man named in the Hansard record simply as “McLaughlin”.

This is in fact a reference to Gerard MacLochlainn, an ex-republican convict who was until recently a Sinn Fein Londonderry councillor.

Mr Maginnis said that republicans guests to the Commons would have been able to “see everything that might be useful to a terrorist coming into the House with the intention of killing an honourable member or honourable members”.

Mr Corbyn replied: “The honourable gentleman seems to be going into a rather lengthy flight of fantasy.

“Does he agree that this building is a public place, that it is owned by the public and paid for by the public?

“Does he agree further that any member of the public is entitled to go through St Stephen’s entrance and to enter the Palace after passing through the screening process?

“If anyone wanted to obtain a plan of this building, he would be able to buy a history book in any bookshop in this country, or anywhere in the world, which would show him the layout.

“I believe that the honourable gentleman is trying to stir up some non-story and non-issue as a way of avoiding the real causes of the problems in Northern Ireland and the real and serious violations of justice in Northern Ireland, of which apparently he approves.”

As the debate moved on, Peter Robinson, then the MP for East Belfast, began to speak about the ongoing violence in the Province.

He referred to an MP who had felt “hurt by the suggestion that there should be a military solution” to the Troubles.

He added that a military solution “is exactly the proposition that I shall put forward”.

At one point Mr Corbyn appeared to want to speak.

Mr Robinson said: “Does the honorary member for Islington, North (Mr Corbyn), who is babbling incoherently from a sedentary position, wish to intervene?”

Mr Corbyn did not, and made no more contributions to the debate.

Morning View: Corbyn and McDonnell did back IRA terror

LOUGHGALL:

The Loughgall ambush on May 8, 1987, was the single biggest loss of life for the IRA.

According to the book Lost Lives, the unit from the East Tyrone Brigade had hijacked a digger, which was loaded with a 200-pound bomb.

The digger and a Toyota van then smashed through the part-time station’s gates.

The authorities had foreknowledge of their plan, however, and lay in wait for the attack.

Three RUC officers volunteered to remain inside the station during the ambush, while some soldiers also donned police uniforms.

Although they were “heavily armed” says the book, the IRA team was outnumbered and were killed.






Read more: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/no...f-dead-ira-terrorists-1-7008757#ixzz3saxsY9IP

 

[Buzzer]

That is not taken from Hansards is it ? The full manuscript is reproduced in the Belfast Newsletter but I can't put anything up as my iPad keeps crashing on that site. I cannot apologise for everything Corbyn has said in his life no more than I can anyone else but try and read the full text Buzzer.

I will do. I'm not asking for any apologies from Corbyn for his comments just an acknowledgement from him that he supported the IRA actions. There's ample evidence that both he and McDonnell did and for a very long time. Actually, I don't even want an acknowledgement, just for him to stop this ridiculous charade that he's a pacifist trying to bring about an end to war and violence wherever he can and that he's never been besties with the IRA high command.

We all pick and choose which armies we support and those we condemn, Corbyn's no different in that regard. I do admire Corbyn for his dedication to his politics and at the same time I'm completely against almost every single policy he fights for and the thought of an IRA/Hamas supporting leader of the UK would be catastrophic.

 

[Questions]

As the debate moved on, Peter Robinson, then the MP for East Belfast, began to speak about the ongoing violence in the Province.

He referred to an MP who had felt “hurt by the suggestion that there should be a military solution” to the Troubles.

He added that a military solution “is exactly the proposition that I shall put forward”.
...........................................................

You wonder why Corbyn argued the toss.
It was a war. There should have been a united Ireland and most Catholics and Rublicans saw it as that with government and soldiers and a totally corrupt Protestant police as legitimate targets.
Catholics were surpressed at every juncture even before St Johns. To many the IRA were heroes who reformed to protect themselves and that is a fact. Whether Corbyn was right to commerate men who planted bombs in waste bins in shopping centres is a different matter. I never would have. Was he an IRA supporter ? Don't know. Did he believe in the Repulican cause....yes.

If we can get a majority in Sussex to seek an independent state do you think we could get away with it ?

Anyway Alfred, Corbyns a c unt you win.