Calais

[BadFish]

the guardian article is bollocks....why should i consider asylum seekers as "heroes"

and that huffpost article is simply one sided testicles

I have met a few whose actions I would describe as heroic. More if you consider how the word is bandied about willy nilly these days.

 

[Creaky]

the guardian article is bollocks....why should i consider asylum seekers as "heroes"

and that huffpost article is simply one sided testicles

Stating an article is "bollocks" without explaining why is easy - isn't what you are actually simply saying is that it doesn't agree with your viewpoint?

 

[BadFish]

Strangely, but to my mind significantly, not one person in the UK answered this, and I was fully expecting all sorts of moral outrage. In fact the only respondent was, guess who, BF, who is fully supportive from his armchair thousands of miles away, that they are dispersed throughout Europe.

Again HG you are crediting me with Soulman's idea about the EU. (It is going to get harder to ignore this embarassing gaffe if you keep making it)
During a discussion with SM we both agreed that in-fact his suggestion would work better if not limited the EU
(do you actually read what is written or just react to your prior assumptions?)
You are accusing me of supporting something from thousands of miles away whilst suggesting barricading the african coastline form......you guessed it.......thousands of miles away. Okay so a little closer than me but tell me what is the cut of point where you cease to be hypocritical?

Would it be too much to ask that you just have a discussion on this thread without constantly referring back to me? Touching though it is it really isn't adding anything of any worth.

 

[Hastings gull]

Those articles evidenced the point that my location matters little. I posted articles with a similar view point to mine written from in the UK. You will notice that if I am using articles or studies to evidence my point then I post the part that provides the evidence. Which I did in this case.

You are once again wilfully confused. Still at least you got the right poster this time

I fully appreciate that you were quoting from the UK and that what you quoted mirrors your views. You posted that Huffington vaguery and when dissected it clearly does not match up to reality or for that matter prove your point. Much of that article quoted what could be regarded as half-truths. and certainly could not be taken as gospel. Then you go on to say - well, I don't believe all of it. The fact that you are impressed with a figure of 18,000 arrests in France with no other evidence to explain what the background is, does in fact say everything about your location. You believe this obviously because you want to, and because you have nothing else to go on. Given the regular news coverage here where it is stressed that the French Police just turn them away with no further action, that figure clearly needs further analysis.

 

[BadFish]

I fully appreciate that you were quoting from the UK and that what you quoted mirrors your views. You posted that Huffington vaguery and when dissected it clearly does not match up to reality or for that matter prove your point. Much of that article quoted what could be regarded as half-truths. and certainly could not be taken as gospel. Then you go on to say - well, I don't believe all of it. The fact that you are impressed with a figure of 18,000 arrests in France with no other evidence to explain what the background is, does in fact say everything about your location. You believe this obviously because you want to, and because you have nothing else to go on. Given the regular news coverage here where it is stressed that the French Police just turn them away with no further action, that figure clearly needs further analysis.

I don't have the time to go back over the thread to find out but did i actually say i was impressed with 18,000 arrests? I really don't remember that?

 

[Hastings gull]

Ignoring the legalities of such a move then blockading the North African Coast would stop the trans-Mediterranean route but that does nothing to reduce the number of refugees - and is in any case a tiny proportion of the total number.

Looking at Syria alone then according to the UN there are 9 million refugees! Many think the UK has it hard with the few thousand trying to enter here - Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan have 3 million already in their territories, more than half of them currently under 18. Turkey on its own is hosting nearly 2 million. How do you blockade the entire Eastern Border of the EU if these decide to migrate?


Then of course there are the other major sources of refugees - Afghanistan, Sudan and Eritrea - a blockade would simply divert those migrating.

I would not suggest for one moment that it is easy or that it would stop every migrant from reaching Europe- of course it would be a difficult undertaking. And you might have to move your blockade if they try to divert. I think your figures are somewhat convenient - most analyses would suggest that it is rather more than your casual mention of a few thousand. Government figures gave the number of immigrants to the UK as about 600,000 (do you recall the PM admitting this prior to the election) and the public see those in Calais adding to this. Of course one can pick loopholes in my suggestion, which is by no means perfect, but it is at least a suggestion -what would be your solution?
If those millions did decide to up sticks and try entry into Western Europe, sadly, I fear you would see an armed conflagration to stop it. By the way, I think it is not quite the same situation in Turkey. A casual check on figures would no doubt show that they have so many more. But my knowledge on this is based on what I see on the TV, just as you do presumably, and they are in tightly controlled camps close to the Syrian border funded by the UN -are they allowed to roam around Turkey with £35.00 a week pocket money? Please don't misunderstand me -I don't for one moment think it is a life of luxury, but one must be so careful about making comparisons.

 

[alfredmizen]

Not my idea HG, Soulman's! No wonder having a conversation with you is so difficult. Your idea is not workable, it just moves the problem on to someone else.

that , in a nutshell is what do gooders like you can't seem to grasp , most people would be more than happy for this to be the case.

 

[BadFish]

that , in a nutshell is what do gooders like you can't seem to grasp , most people would be more than happy for this to be the case.

Love do gooder as an insult, it so ****ing stupid!

Although to be honest while some people are happy to move the problem on to someone else (NIMBY's i think they are called) I think most people would feel that Hasting Gull's idea was largely unworkable, reactionary nonsense. Even the Australian government would stop short of that one. Of course if i am wrong I am sure that we will see majority rule and it get implemented. Won't hold my breath though.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The problems in Calais and the increased migration figures year on year just proves why we need to exit the EU so we can get some sort of control back over our borders.
They talk about being an inward looking country if we exited the EU, it's an inward looking country now with all the rubbish that is going on in at the moment.

 

[BadFish]

If anyone is interested one of the Aussie TV station made this series. It is Aussie centric and i don't put it up as evidence of anything in particular but it does give you some idea of what people go through, some people might find it interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6C6CCCC7EE11CF4B

I hope the link works in the UK.

 

[Soulman]

If anyone is interested one of the Aussie TV station made this series. It is Aussie centric and i don't put it up as evidence of anything in particular but it does give you some idea of what people go through, some people might find it interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6C6CCCC7EE11CF4B

I hope the link works in the UK.

Is it about Calais?

 

[BadFish]

Is it about Calais?

No, it's not about Calais and not about the UK. Yet a lot of the arguments used on here are the same ones you find on these threads. Which personally I find quite interesting.

That series is quite old, they are just doing number 3 now.

 

[Creaky]

I would not suggest for one moment that it is easy or that it would stop every migrant from reaching Europe- of course it would be a difficult undertaking. And you might have to move your blockade if they try to divert. I think your figures are somewhat convenient - most analyses would suggest that it is rather more than your casual mention of a few thousand. Government figures gave the number of immigrants to the UK as about 600,000 (do you recall the PM admitting this prior to the election) and the public see those in Calais adding to this. Of course one can pick loopholes in my suggestion, which is by no means perfect, but it is at least a suggestion -what would be your solution?
If those millions did decide to up sticks and try entry into Western Europe, sadly, I fear you would see an armed conflagration to stop it. By the way, I think it is not quite the same situation in Turkey. A casual check on figures would no doubt show that they have so many more. But my knowledge on this is based on what I see on the TV, just as you do presumably, and they are in tightly controlled camps close to the Syrian border funded by the UN -are they allowed to roam around Turkey with £35.00 a week pocket money? Please don't misunderstand me -I don't for one moment think it is a life of luxury, but one must be so careful about making comparisons.

If that 600,000 figure you quote as the estimate of 'illegal' immigrants were those arriving over a short period then they most certainly would be more than a 'few thousand'. Of course that estimate is just that, an estimate and includes children born in the UK to those without the right to permanently settle in the UK. It also includes those who entered on a valid visa and didn't leave when this expired.

The Express, hardly the media to minimise the problem, estimated in June of this year that the number entering the country undetected, (i.e. not entering by legitimate means), was about 1,500 a month - a figure that comes well within the 'few thousand' statement.

I'm not trying to trivialise the situation, there is a genuine problem that needs to be addressed but 'our' problem needs to be seen in perspective rather than some of the hyperbolic reaction that some have.

In regards to Turkey the report from the Migration Policy Institute which can be downloaded from this link, (http://www.migrationpolicy.org/research/syrian-refugees-turkey-long-road-ahead), states that 80% of the 1.8 million registered Syrian refugees are settled outside of the camps in towns and villages.

 

[sydney]

Australia will be swamped with refugees/asylum in the coming years....to much poverty and general shyte going on a few km's to the north for it not to happen.

 

[Creaky]

The problems in Calais and the increased migration figures year on year just proves why we need to exit the EU so we can get some sort of control back over our borders.
They talk about being an inward looking country if we exited the EU, it's an inward looking country now with all the rubbish that is going on in at the moment.

How would an exit from the EU help with the current problem? Surely it would make it more difficult. At the moment UK personnel are assisting in trying to prevent migrants from getting on the lorries and trains etc on the French side of the channel. Strict border controls on this side of the Channel, as attractive as that sounds, is closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. Once a migrant has arrived here it is our problem not a French one.

 

[BadFish]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/robin-lustig/calais-migrants-refugees_b_7909630.html

 

[Hastings gull]

If that 600,000 figure you quote as the estimate of 'illegal' immigrants were those arriving over a short period then they most certainly would be more than a 'few thousand'. Of course that estimate is just that, an estimate and includes children born in the UK to those without the right to permanently settle in the UK. It also includes those who entered on a valid visa and didn't leave when this expired.

The Express, hardly the media to minimise the problem, estimated in June of this year that the number entering the country undetected, (i.e. not entering by legitimate means), was about 1,500 a month - a figure that comes well within the 'few thousand' statement.

I'm not trying to trivialise the situation, there is a genuine problem that needs to be addressed but 'our' problem needs to be seen in perspective rather than some of the hyperbolic reaction that some have.

In regards to Turkey the report from the Migration Policy Institute which can be downloaded from this link, (http://www.migrationpolicy.org/research/syrian-refugees-turkey-long-road-ahead), states that 80% of the 1.8 million registered Syrian refugees are settled outside of the camps in towns and villages.

The figure of 600,000 does of course include all sorts, including EU migrants, or whatever the expression is in their case. What we are seeing in Calais/Kent is simply exacerbating the problem. Again your Maths is rather convenient -assuming the figure is true, over several years, not just the last few months, that does tend to add up. Thanks for your info about Turkey - I will take your word for that. I am sure that you are not trying to trivialise the issue, by the way, -so I ask again - how do we address it? You have avoided the tricky part.

 

[Hastings gull]

I don't have the time to go back over the thread to find out but did i actually say i was impressed with 18,000 arrests? I really don't remember that?

You are quite right -you did not. You made a point to another post, saying that you would leave him/her to their fear and paranoia and gave two links which you said were UK based to support your view. I looked at one and saw the vague description of arrests. YOU posted the link you claimed that this was your view, backed up by the fact that it is UK based, so as to deflect criticism that you are so far away, so don't try now and wriggle out of it.

 

[BadFish]

You are quite right -you did not. You made a point to another post, saying that you would leave him/her to their fear and paranoia and gave two links which you said were UK based to support your view. I looked at one and saw the vague description of arrests. YOU posted the link you claimed that this was your view, backed up by the fact that it is UK based, so as to deflect criticism that you are so far away, so don't try now and wriggle out of it.

You are really struggling here so I will let it go.

 

[Hastings gull]

Again HG you are crediting me with Soulman's idea about the EU. (It is going to get harder to ignore this embarassing gaffe if you keep making it)
During a discussion with SM we both agreed that in-fact his suggestion would work better if not limited the EU
(do you actually read what is written or just react to your prior assumptions?)
You are accusing me of supporting something from thousands of miles away whilst suggesting barricading the african coastline form......you guessed it.......thousands of miles away. Okay so a little closer than me but tell me what is the cut of point where you cease to be hypocritical?

Would it be too much to ask that you just have a discussion on this thread without constantly referring back to me? Touching though it is it really isn't adding anything of any worth.

I had missed that bit but just recall you talking grandly of spreading migrants all over Europe. Apologies. Note the apology and the reluctance to lecture, though I should also add that you had missed my original solution. Isn't there an expression -something about pot kettle black? I hardly think that a blockade would be from thousand of miles away!
Anyway, how kind of you to suggest that hundreds of thousands of migrants, which it will most certainly be, given your "green light" policy, should be dispersed around the globe. Will the people affected in say, Singapore, actually be asked? Will that nice kind Mr Putin agree to have his share? Will the migrants in Italy, for example, be deliriously happy, when told -sorry, mate, it is not Germany, Britain or Canada, as one interviewed the other night indicated his preferences, you are off to Roumania; cheer up, It will be nice and sunny there. Assume that all of this has been thought through.