The moment when Berry says “the programme which you claim to love so much” is so indicative of the mindset of a certain breed of modern politician, absolutely no need to be that confrontational and snide but he just cannot help himself
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[News] Post Office Scandal -
- Thread starter Talby
- Start date
The moment when Berry says “the programme which you claim to love so much” is so indicative of the mindset of a certain breed of modern politician, absolutely no need to be that confrontational and snide but he just cannot help himself
The only way he could look like any more of a cock is if he spent the whole programme lying in a hammock dribbling over porn mags.
And why exactly should he be given immunity?
Gareth Jenkins, architect of Post Office scandal, demands immunity
The former Fujitsu engineer's testimony about the faulty Horizon IT system was central to convictionswww.telegraph.co.uk
Interesting development…
I don't know whether his head should be on a block, but some heads should be.
IMO the best way to stop something like this happening again is to fully prosecute those responsible. That way, the next time ****s like these are considering perverting the course of justice, they might reconsider.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The ITV drama boss, Polly Hill, is working on a similar piece about the NHS.
As Ian Hislop has said, two decades of work, fighting, but it took a television drama, and a looming election to get anything done.
Similar, to Cathy Come Home, in the 60s about homelessness, and Hillsborough changing the public’s perception of the truth.
As Ian Hislop has said, two decades of work, fighting, but it took a television drama, and a looming election to get anything done.
Similar, to Cathy Come Home, in the 60s about homelessness, and Hillsborough changing the public’s perception of the truth.
Is anyone claiming he's 'behind this'? Did he do anything wrong (like lie in court), and if not, why is he asking for immunity?If you really think the 'Head Technical Architect' at Fujitsu is behind this, I have some beans I really think would interest you
You're taking the phrase "behind this" far too literally.
All we know is that he's asked for immunity. WZ is merely contending that a technical architect has no case to answer anyway. He's probably right. At worst, he's crap at his job. He's not responsible for the widespread lies, obfuscation, arse covering, implementing a bonus culture that ignores the innocent little guy and so on that are at the core of this shocking case.
I suspect some of us are speaking from our own work in large corporates on complex IT system developments where, in most cases, a technical architect will have been some distance from post-implementation support, bug remediation and ongoing system maintenance. By that time, they will have probably moved onto other projects or, at least, another phase of the same project.
However that Telegraph piece says:
"His testimony given in court cases that the Fujitsu IT system was working correctly was central to convictions and repeatedly used by Post Office lawyers."
Again, without having more detail, it could be that he gave good faith responses to questions asked, and those questions (from PO lawyers) kept well away from what the issues actually were.
Indeed @Bozza. It could also be that he was the architect at the beginning, and concluded the very first iteration was performing adequately to his knowledge. Who knows? I can't really believe a person in that position was responsible for anything other than - at worst - piss poor system design.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,978
See the answers above. AFAIK there aren't any issues with the architecture of the system. The issues are around the management and decisions made regarding remote unaudited access to the underlying data, the management of the level, prioritisation and fixing of faults, the recognition of these two issues, the failure to address them, the cover up of these issues, the bonusing of people getting convictions etc etc
I suspect the reason he'll be asking for immunity is that he'll recognise he's way out of his depth when dealing with the 'skills' of people who did the above. That's where the criminal activity has taken place and is where the focus should be.
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 70,411
I'd start with the Horizon Project Director and work down (and up)
If he has no case to answer, that's great, and he should just help the inquiry. It seems odd for someone in that position, with no case to answer, to ask for immunity. The reason I've then taken the phrase literally, is because I don't see how anyone here can be so confident he has no case to answer. Is it not possible that he knew there were issues with the system? Is it not possible that he raised concerns with the post office? Is it not possible that he was asked to ignore those concerns, and he would be well paid for his time giving testimony?
I'm not suggesting he's guilty of anything, but I'm not completely confident he's not, and him asking for immunity seems wrong to me.
If he's way out of his depth regarding the how the system is coded, why was he the one who was giving testimony to assure courts that it was working correctly?
It doesn't seem odd to ask for immunity to me. If I was him having seen all this unfold, I'd have no faith that justice was going to be done either.
Nobody is "so confident" that he has no case to answer, but based on his job and seniority, it's a good guess that he is unlikely to be the problem. Yet as someone who helped design a system that was "a bag of shit", he knows he'll be a target for the slopey shouldered brigade of MPs and execs who took massive bonuses.
- Jul 10, 2003
- 25,978
The issues aren't about the architecture of the system or how it was designed or coded, all new systems have bugs and faults, that is entirely normal. The issue is entirely about the management decisions made around the way the system was implemented with regard to timing and risk, supported, maintained etc etc and then the subsequent cover up and convictions, things I wouldn't normally expect a technical architect to be involved in.
These are not technical issues and therefor I would think it highly unlikely that technical people are responsible. I do have a little experience in this area and major cock ups can only be made by senior people
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Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The excellent Marsh Family bring their musical talent to the debate.
The Public Inquiry reconvenes today after their Christmas break and, obviously, is going to be somewhat higher-profile now.
I agree.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Dominic Grieve KC, former Attorney General, is unsettled about the mass exoneration by the government, and a quick fix payment of compensation.
I can understand his point of view because it means Parliament is overriding the law, and judges, but there again the law has been used against the innocent people.
It has taken far too long but a quick fix isn't going to get to the bottom of the matter as to who should be prosecuted for gross negligence.
The government is wanting to stick an elastoplast over the problem, say there there, and here's some money to make up for it.
It's a mess. A complicated nasty tangle of a mess, and some of the spiders in the messed up web are just going to move on.
I can understand his point of view because it means Parliament is overriding the law, and judges, but there again the law has been used against the innocent people.
It has taken far too long but a quick fix isn't going to get to the bottom of the matter as to who should be prosecuted for gross negligence.
The government is wanting to stick an elastoplast over the problem, say there there, and here's some money to make up for it.
It's a mess. A complicated nasty tangle of a mess, and some of the spiders in the messed up web are just going to move on.
Official Old Man
Uckfield Seagull
Can be watched live here-
Starting with Stephen Bradshaw who was a Post Office Investigator.
Post Mistress on TV said she will be in the session today listening to how many times he will say "I don't recall"
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If a technician is in court claiming that the faulty software is not faulty, is that not part of the cover-up?
I think there are two distinct things at play here...
1. Trying to put right the wrongs to those affected. In short: Quash the convictions and give them cash. For many, sadly, it's too late and for those still alive, nothing can really put things right, but "we are where we are" and we have to do what we can.
2. Identify how it happened and hold those responsible to account.
The first can and should be done as quickly as possible. The second is likely to take longer, and should be given the full time required.