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[Albion] Offside?



peterward

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Nov 11, 2009
11,514
I hate VAR anyway and have done from day one, but at times it is useful. But the fractional offsides really get my goat. They cannot possibly do it to this level of accuracy so the benefit of doubt should be given. That’s a goal pre VAR
Think it was Souness who made sensible suggestion, rather than having a fingernail distance deeming you offside as today, change the law so that if any part of your body is onside, its a goal (or not offside).

Far more sensible, will result in more goals too.
 




nwgull

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2003
13,964
Manchester
My weekly reminder that VAR offside is NOT scientific or accurate and therefore it shouldn't be used for tight decisions. Especially by morons.
Yep. The slo mo is 50 fps. Even the more sluggish players will be running at 8 m/s (speedsters like Lamptey have been clocked at >10 m/s) so that gives a 16cm margin of error, which is huge given that the lines on some of the decisions overturned are tighter than a gnat’s chuff.
 


Farehamseagull

Solly March Fan Club
Nov 22, 2007
14,218
Sarisbury Green, Southampton
My weekly reminder that VAR offside is NOT scientific or accurate and therefore it shouldn't be used for tight decisions. Especially by morons.
Correct. And it’s why VAR should only be used for off the ball incidents and mistaken identity calls. Nearly all decisions in football, including offside and handball, are subjective and VAR as it’s currently being used will never work no matter how good the individuals are operating it.
 




Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
This is all very tedious.

If Dunk had stayed fully behind the defender he wouldn't have been offside. If the decision is that he was offside, he was offside regardless.

Shit happens.

Get over it.
Tedious is when some fans think they are above others telling us to get over it.
 




Freddo

Active member
May 14, 2006
651
Clapham
Think it was Souness who made sensible suggestion, rather than having a fingernail distance deeming you offside as today, change the law so that if any part of your body is onside, its a goal (or not offside).

Far more sensible, will result in more goals too.
That wouldn’t solve the problem. Firstly, it would simply move where the line is drawn, and secondly defending teams would compensate by dropping back deeper, likely resulting in even fewer goals.
 


ManOfSussex

We wunt be druv
Apr 11, 2016
14,778
Rape of Hastings, Sussex
It's okay. Howard Webb et al will say sorry again so there's nothing to worry about.
 


Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
64,917
Withdean area
Think it was Souness who made sensible suggestion, rather than having a fingernail distance deeming you offside as today, change the law so that if any part of your body is onside, its a goal (or not offside).

Far more sensible, will result in more goals too.

Anything to simplify.

Whether someone’s armpit is marginally closer to the goal line than someone else’s, 18 yards back, is sport-killing nonsense.
 




macbeth

Dismembered
Jan 3, 2018
3,887
six feet beneath the moon...
That wouldn’t solve the problem. Firstly, it would simply move where the line is drawn, and secondly defending teams would compensate by dropping back deeper, likely resulting in even fewer goals.
correct. as much as my preference would be for the whole thing to be binned off, that’s not going to happen. so just get the automatic offside in like they have in the champions league. obviously you’d still get the hairline decisions, but they’d be correct and wouldn’t take half an hour
 




nwgull

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2003
13,964
Manchester
Think it was Souness who made sensible suggestion, rather than having a fingernail distance deeming you offside as today, change the law so that if any part of your body is onside, its a goal (or not offside).

Far more sensible, will result in more goals too.
Wouldn’t actually change offsides being given that are millimetres though, would it?

I never really thought we needed it for offsides as the elite-level linos generally got it spot on. We have however opened Pandora’s box. Can only think that an umpire’s-call rule could come in where they’d have to be at least 10cm on/off to overturn a decision.
 
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pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,374
They drew the line from Dunks arm to make the decision. Within the rules, they're not supposed to do that.

Its another Estupinan. We've been shafted - again.
Another weekly VAR blunder for lessons to be learnt from.
 




trueblue

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
10,592
Hove
They draw the lines from 3 different camera positions? How does that work?
They have several VAR cameras and all the broadcast angles to choose from. So they can choose the one that shows the body part clearly and draw the line using that angle. When they then switch angles to assess other relevant information, the line stays in place. The cameras are calibrated to work together and even take into account the camber of the pitch.

It's precision Hawk-Eye technology, not someone putting a straight line across a single still frame as TV companies used to do. That explains why some stills that look onside/offside on traditional coverage were misleading. It's a different outcome once the viewing angle has been accounted for.

Personally, I hate it as it takes too long and there's nowhere near the leeway there should be in a high speed sport - but the process is pretty much sound.
 




Sheebo

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2003
29,319
They have several VAR cameras and all the broadcast angles to choose from. So they can choose the one that shows the body part clearly and draw the line using that angle. When they then switch angles to assess other relevant information, the line stays in place. The cameras are calibrated to work together and even take into account the camber of the pitch.

It's precision Hawk-Eye technology, not someone putting a straight line across a single still frame as TV companies used to do. That explains why some stills that look onside/offside on traditional coverage were misleading. It's a different outcome once the viewing angle has been accounted for.

Personally, I hate it as it takes too long and there's nowhere near the leeway there should be in a high speed sport - but the process is pretty much sound.
Interesting. Thank you. But I’m guessing that angle is the one they drew the lines on initially as it’s the only one we saw and we see what VAR is looking at right? If there was a better angle we’d have surely seen it? So the angle being poor does make a difference as to the accuracy of the lines. Ie is that the short line / armpit or not… that angle we saw was appalling and I think it’s down to their stadium? If not it’s poor from VAR…
 


trueblue

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
10,592
Hove
Is it just me, or are these lines bent?

I get that the line on the pitch could appear bent due to the pitch not being completely flat but surely the red/blue drawn lines should be perfectly straight?!

Uploaded another image/source which appears to show the same

View attachment 169174

View attachment 169173
According to the Premier League/HawkEye explanations, the lines look bent unless the camera is directly in line with the players. That's not in response to this. That's been the case since the start.
 


trueblue

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
10,592
Hove
Interesting. Thank you. But I’m guessing that angle is the one they drew the lines on initially as it’s the only one we saw and we see what VAR is looking at right? If there was a better angle we’d have surely seen it? So the angle being poor does make a difference as to the accuracy of the lines. Ie is that the short line / armpit or not… that angle we saw was appalling and I think it’s down to their stadium? If not it’s poor from VAR…
I doubt it. Normally when you see the whole process, they are flicking between angles initially to find a clear shot. I wasn't watching but it's possible that by the time the TV coverage cut to VAR, that bit had already been done.
 


METALMICKY

Well-known member
Jan 30, 2004
6,209
Do you all remember when the offside law was changed, some time in the 90's I reckon, to say that attackers who were level with the last defender were onside? Previously level meant offside. The idea was to give the benefit of the doubt to the attackers and allow more exciting football.

In this decision, and so many like it, the attacker is level with the defender under any sensible definition of 'level'. Yet the way they scrutinise these decisions to the nth degree means they have basically done away with the 'level means onside' law, by the backdoor.
A very good point!
 






Sheebo

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2003
29,319
I doubt it. Normally when you see the whole process, they are flicking between angles initially to find a clear shot. I wasn't watching but it's possible that by the time the TV coverage cut to VAR, that bit had already been done.
No as it showed that angle for ages before the lines were drawn. Then when they were drawn it showed them on that angle. It was on tv for a fairly long time. I’d def bet they drew them on that angle personally. I don’t think there was a better angle.
 


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