Zero-hours contracts have been banned in New Zealand

[One Love]

No, you've quite clearly got that wrong as I don't have any chip on my shoulder.

What actually happened is that I, too, saw both sides of the argument, pointing out that zero hour contracts might work for both sides where the employees in question were people in full time education and under the age of 18 - to which you glibly replied "meanwhile back in the real world", an utterly feeble retort that represented a complete absence of sensible argument.

Your words here are a bit hollow: " I understand that some piss-taking bullying businesses may exploit zero hour contracts, obviously I agree this should be stopped." Why don't you tell us HOW this should be stopped? My solution was to only allow zero hour contracts for a sector of the population I'd deem less vulnerable than most, and arguably most suited to zero hour contracts. What is your solution?

Meanwhile, plenty of developed countries continue to ensure their employment law doesn't allow for this kind of thing - New Zealand in this example. It's not hard to see why.

You would allow zero hour contracts for those businesses that don't know whether they are going to need a certain level of staff or not. To use the small cafe as an example they could need their maximum number of staff one day and the next, if it pissed down with rain all day, none. To use another example a hand car wash would need maximum staff on a beautifully sunny day and on a terrible windy rainy day close up for the day.

What I was getting at by my glib comment was if you got rid of zero hour contracts then employers would take other alternatives. They would I guess have to close or pay their employees by other means. Neither of which the treasury would want.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You would allow zero hour contracts for those businesses that don't know whether they are going to need a certain level of staff or not. To use the small cafe as an example they could need their maximum number of staff one day and the next, if it pissed down with rain all day, none. To use another example a hand car wash would need maximum staff on a beautifully sunny day and on a terrible windy rainy day close up for the day.

What I was getting at by my glib comment was if you got rid of zero hour contracts then employers would take other alternatives. They would I guess have to close or pay their employees by other means. Neither of which the treasury would want.

So the employee has to carry all the risk? That's bollocks and unfair.

 

[One Love]

So the employee has to carry all the risk? That's bollocks and unfair.

No an employee decides whether they want work on this basis because as a lot of people have said on this thread it does suit some employees.

If you don't like it then you go elsewhere.

Anyway are you seriously saying that a small business doesn't carry any risk!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The NZ parliament has listened to its people and voted them out. This vote is from right across their political spectrum. Are you really saying that the NZ population and the vast majority of their parliament are all lacking in intellect"?

Yet a quick Google shows no real pressure form the people of NZ to have these contracts banned. Equally, it would appear they haven't been actually banned, just some restrictions placed around them - http://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-servic...gislation-bill/addressing-zero-hour-contracts - which I would generally agree with.

Sadly too many people have jumped on a bandwagon around zero hours contracts when they have neither experienced them nor understand them.

 

[Biscuit Barrel]

I find this figure of 70% very hard to believe. Do you have a source?

I will try and find it. I think it was the bbc website.

 

[Biscuit Barrel]

I find this figure of 70% very hard to believe. Do you have a source?

I have not been able to find the article I was referring to (I will keep looking). I did find this one.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25098984

 

[crookie]

I have no experience of them and don't know anyone who is on them, seems plenty of people on here are/have been happy to be on them. On the other hand companies like Sports Direct, who are clearly using these to screw over their employees need to be stopped. It is all very well saying most are happy to have them, but if you live in an area of high unemployment and are perhaps unskilled, or low-skilled your options are probably pretty limited. You take whats there, not because you are happy to, but because you have to. Unscrupulous companies in such areas will be well aware of this. Let's challenge these contracts where they are clearly massively weighted in a companies favour, but there surely is no need to ban something that it is clear plenty of people are happy with the flexibility it offers

 

[looney]

"Politicians from across the spectrum voted to outlaw the practice of hiring worker with no guarantee of minimum hours" - why can't the UK do this?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...have-been-banned-in-new-zealand-a6925246.html

So you think these are worse than penalty clause temp contracts that cut wage rates if you miss days?

 

[Hampster Gull]

My wife has a zero hours contract and it suits her, shes worked on average 35 hours a week, she can say no when she wants and can have as much holiday as she wants,
Also gets to leave at 2pm on a weekday when we play at the AMEX. so banning zero hours is not the solution.

Indeed. It also abused by some employers but it has a place for people like your wife. I dont buy the "ban" brigade because it doesn't suit their agenda. I would like some thought given to how we could stop the abusers though without a sledgehammer

 

[Guy Fawkes]

They work well, but for employers only. I see very few benefits and plenty of abuse for employees.

There are plenty of employees who benefit from this type of contract too. (students who may have exams, semi-retired, etc) If it works all both parties, what's the problems?

Whats the alternative? - no job at all for the worker? or no vacancy from the employer and the existing staff stretched further filling in for this because there isn't the guarantee that there are enough hours available to make the role one which has permanently contracted hours?

No one is forced into a zero hours contract and they can leave and can go on to find a full or part time job elsewhere at any time. No one is forced to stay working for that employer (those against making it sound like the worker has no choice and forced against their will as if that is all thats open to them)

 

[coagulantwolf]

Well done New Zealand....The only people that benefit are the large corporations and the employers.
It may suit very few who have loads of money and like an easy life,but very very few.

Another one who has chosen to ignore the majority of posts on this thread.

I've been on zero hour contact too, used correctly they can be great. Employees can benefit hugely from zero hour contracts too, not just the employers.

It amazes me how many people talk about exploitation of zero hour contracts, what about those who are salaried, who work more than their contracted hours but do not get any kind of over time payments, bonus's etc? I know plenty of people like that.

 

[yxee]

It all sounds like a witch hunt to me, and you can be the most vocal campaigners are not themselves on these contracts.

Just another soundbite generated by a doomed Labour opposition scrambling to make any possible connection to their electorate.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I have no experience of them and don't know anyone who is on them, seems plenty of people on here are/have been happy to be on them. On the other hand companies like Sports Direct, who are clearly using these to screw over their employees need to be stopped. It is all very well saying most are happy to have them, but if you live in an area of high unemployment and are perhaps unskilled, or low-skilled your options are probably pretty limited. You take whats there, not because you are happy to, but because you have to. Unscrupulous companies in such areas will be well aware of this. Let's challenge these contracts where they are clearly massively weighted in a companies favour, but there surely is no need to ban something that it is clear plenty of people are happy with the flexibility it offers

There are migrants who legally travel across Europe and to the UK to find legal work here but there is an attitude from a lot of people born in the UK that we will not move from the local area to find a better life for ourselves, preferring to accept poor job opportunities like this rather than to look further afield (including work in other countries)

A lot of it is how willing you are to try and how determined you are to improve your lot in life yourself or if you can't be bothered and expect others to sort things out for you instead (like relying on the state to everything for you like you are still a child, when you can achieve the same and better if you did it on your own but it take application, determination and effort, which not everyone is willing to do, yet are jealous of the results of those who do, wanting the same for no effort themselves)

 

[WildWood]

I use zero hours contracts at my place of work & employ around 40 staff at any one time. Being an events business, we are very busy in the summer & not so busy in the Winter. I can tell you from mine & my teams experience that it works well for both parties. This is because I can give the team their rota a month in advance, although these hours can flex from 5 days a week in the Summer to a couple of days a week in the Winter. The key is communicating with people from the start & giving them time to plan their finances accordingly, depending on the peaks & troughs of the year. I think the bad press of zero hours comes from the 'don't call us we'll call you' approach to hours, in the catering industry for example - especially when favouritism can creep in & some people are given more hours than others depending on if your face fits. As many people have said already, it's the way the contract is used by employers that is the issue, not the contract itself.

 

[beorhthelm]

I find this figure of 70% very hard to believe. Do you have a source?

it doesnt show the same number, but this CIPD report shows satisfaction in that direction. page 32, notable similarity of satisfaction as all employee, and often better. also note page 8, showing that use of zero hours most common in education and healthcare sectors.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

it doesnt show the same number, but this CIPD report shows satisfaction in that direction. page 32, notable similarity of satisfaction as all employee, and often better. also note page 8, showing that use of zero hours most common in education and healthcare sectors.

The CIPD, a human resource body, appear to have written this themselves? It's not independently commissioned research.

 

[BadFish]

Install table parasols/umbrellas ? Not be silly enough to start a business that relies on our climate ? I've said it before and it pains me to say it again , we could and should learn a lot from the Germans , Its taken me a while but I've come to realise what an awful system ''anglo saxon capitalism'' really is , under it literally everything seems to be pared to the bone in the quest for profit, the germans seem to run a decent capitalist system without exploiting people , we could even learn from the french, ive just got back from a weekend in Lyon, decent public transport, all the chain stores closed on the sunday ( they do radical things like spend time with family)
we really dont NEED to buy clothes on a sunday afternoon, and i'm pretty sure that the french have just handed google a well deserved whopping tax bill.

This!

 

[BadFish]

Haven't had time to read the article but knowing NZ (as I don't really) they will probably have replaced them with something bloody sensible and fair to all parties.

 

[beorhthelm]

The CIPD, a human resource body, appear to have written this themselves? It's not independently commissioned research.

you dont consider CIPD, the chartered body for HR professionals to be independent? you're trying to find fault with something that challenges your views.