Will Self destroys Jamie Oliver

[Simster]

More to the point of my posts being labelled 'sneering contempt' and 'absolute bollocks' by a person who appears to be able to state truisms that speak for the whole of society. I'd say that is pretty arrogant in my book.

The very definition of a truism is that it speaks for the whole of society. Therefore there is nothing arrogant at all about saying as much.

I can't find the bit where he accuses you of "sneering contempt" so can't comment, but last time I checked I thought "absolute bollocks" was simply a forceful way of disagreeing. It hardly means he's being arrogant, IMO. Maybe you just don't like being out thought?



Edit: ah yes I see it now. You basically accused ALL 11m Tory voters of only voting for themselves. Sorry, I agree with Buzzer. I'm sure some do only vote for themselves, but I certainly read your post as sneering contempt towards all Tory voters too.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The very definition of a truism is that it speaks for the whole of society. Therefore there is nothing arrogant at all about saying as much.

I can't find the bit where he accuses you of "sneering contempt" so can't comment, but last time I checked I thought "absolute bollocks" was simply a forceful way of disagreeing. It hardly means he's being arrogant, IMO. Maybe you just don't like being out thought?

That's absolute bollocks!

 

[Bold Seagull]

The very definition of a truism is that it speaks for the whole of society. Therefore there is nothing arrogant at all about saying as much.

I can't find the bit where he accuses you of "sneering contempt" so can't comment, but last time I checked I thought "absolute bollocks" was simply a forceful way of disagreeing. It hardly means he's being arrogant, IMO. Maybe you just don't like being out thought?



Edit: ah yes I see it now. You basically accused ALL 11m Tory voters of only voting for themselves. Sorry, I agree with Buzzer. I'm sure some do only vote for themselves, but I certainly read your post as sneering contempt towards all Tory voters too.

Me and Buzzer are managing quite well on our own thanks. Why don't you run along and pick a fight with someone else for now, there's a good man.

 

[Buzzer]

You're the one stating it's a truism! Who's to say it is? How can you state that pretty much all of society believes we should take such collective responsibility that there should be no need for charity? You've made a political statement, which when questioned you could only respond with 'sneering contempt' and 'absolute bollocks'.

No. Simster called it right. You were being very sneery and that was what I was referring to.

How can I say that most of society thinks it's a good idea if there was no need for charity? Because I believe it to be true. We could do a vox pop on here and I'll concede the point if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that I'm right. And that's why I think it's a truism.

 

[Questions]

I love the way how Simster holds Buzzers coat whilst he has a fight.

 

[Bold Seagull]

No. Simster called it right. You were being very sneery and that was what I was referring to.

How can I say that most of society thinks it's a good idea if there was no need for charity? Because I believe it to be true. We could do a vox pop on here and I'll concede the point if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that I'm right. And that's why I think it's a truism.

Okay, that's fair enough. But, why when I suggest that because 11m vote Tory under the key policy 'Big Society', which I believed suggested society needed to deal with it's issues through volunteering and 'charity' rather than the state, to counter the idea that it's a truism do you believe it's sneering contempt?

That's not contempt for Tory voters, that's just pointing out your truism is not a truism...in my opinion at least.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I love the way how Simster holds Buzzers coat whilst he has a fight.

Birds of a feather. I should of seen it coming, it's like those veloraptors in Jurassic Park......

 

[Questions]

Birds of a feather. I should of seen it coming, it's like those veloraptors in Jurassic Park......

It's velociraptor man...... For Christ sake pull yourself together.

 

[Buzzer]

Okay, that's fair enough. But, why when I suggest that because 11m vote Tory under the key policy 'Big Society', which I believed suggested society needed to deal with it's issues through volunteering and 'charity' rather than the state, to counter the idea that it's a truism do you believe it's sneering contempt?

It was after being asked if you thought all 11 million voters didn't think that a society with no charity is a good thing:

No, of course not. I sincerely imagine every Tory voter shares a utopian vision of society taking care of it's poor, needy and dependent in a completely compassionate, responsible way, open to the notion of complete funding without any need for charity.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It was after being asked if you thought all 11 million voters didn't think that a society with no charity is a good thing:

I imagine I'm completely on my own thinking that.

 

[Buzzer]

I imagine I'm completely on my own thinking that.

I don't doubt you're not alone in thinking that, it was the way you expressed it (as you've done in your latest post - sarcasm seems to be the order of the day). I've already quoted your post #164 twice and we seem to be going round in circles with you avoiding that.

 

[User removed 4]

Me and Buzzer are managing quite well on our own thanks. Why don't you run along and pick a fight with someone else for now, there's a good man.

And you say you're not sneery ?

 

[Bold Seagull]

I don't doubt you're not alone in thinking that, it was the way you expressed it (as you've done in your latest post - sarcasm seems to be the order of the day). I've already quoted your post #164 twice and we seem to be going round in circles with you avoiding that.

So if I'm not alone in thinking the same as what I stated in the now infamous post #164, then that would surely mean your truism is not a truism because not everyone believes it to be true - as you yourself have just said?

 

[Bold Seagull]

And you say you're not sneery ?

Well exactly. That was a proper sneery post. If I'm going to be accused of being sneery, then I may as well indulge myself!

 

[User removed 4]

Birds of a feather. I should of seen it coming, it's like those veloraptors in Jurassic Park......

Should OF seen it coming ? You'll get kicked out of the will self fan club with grammar like that

 

[Bold Seagull]

Should OF seen it coming ? You'll get kicked out of the will self fan club with grammar like that

Ouch, that's a low blow. Your bang out of order.

 

[User removed 4]

Ouch, that's a low blow. Your bang out of order.

YOUR ?? Surely I'm being wooshed !!

 

[Buzzer]

So if I'm not alone in thinking the same as what I stated in the now infamous post #164, then that would surely mean your truism is not a truism because not everyone believes it to be true - as you yourself have just said?

Nope. You've still not squirmed out of that one. Your post was sneery contempt and you and I both know it.

Anyway, if you're going to try to use pedantry to dig yourself out of this hole you've made for yourself then the pertinent word in my posts was MOST of society. Even if all 11 million Tory voters didn't think it was a good idea that would leave a majority who did. But let's not go down that route..because if we do I'll also bring up your post #162 where even you called it a truism.

 

[life on mars 73]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain what Self means by the "eternal soul" of our culture. Sounds almost Hitlerian.....

 

[Bold Seagull]

Nope. You've still not squirmed out of that one. Your post was sneery contempt and you and I both know it.

Anyway, if you're going to try to use pedantry to dig yourself out of this hole you've made for yourself then the pertinent word in my posts was MOST of society. Even if all 11 million Tory voters didn't think it was a good idea that would leave a majority who did. But let's not go down that route..because if we do I'll also bring up your post #162 where even you called it a truism.

You can't actually debate without first asserting that you feel you're in charge can you? You're incapable of making a point without first suggesting you've got 'one over' on the person you're disagreeing with. I've not squirmed, sneered, or dug a hole, let's be honest. This whole discussion has only taken place because you stated Self made a statement which you asserted was a truism. It cannot be a truism if it is only MOST or a majority. It isn't pedantry when its the whole reason we're having this stupid debate in the first place.