[Help] Who’s the expert on parking fines?

[South Stand Bonfire]

Must admit, I'm curious. You had a choice of 110 spaces, yet the width of the spaces meant you couldn’t physically avoid having a wheel over the line. How did you avoid getting a PCN for the same thing every time you used your season ticket? Surely you had the same problem every time?

No. It only happened in COVID. I was working on the construction site opposite 1 day per week and I had a contractor’s pass to use the car park at any time. I assume as the car park was less than 5% full during lockdown it was the only way the scammers could try and make their money. There were actually 4/5 spaces per floor (6 floors) which were slightly bigger so I used them in future to avoid the hassle as I was normally in the car park early on my visit days.

 

[South Stand Bonfire]

Must admit, I'm curious. You had a choice of 110 spaces, yet the width of the spaces meant you couldn’t physically avoid having a wheel over the line. How did you avoid getting a PCN for the same thing every time you used your season ticket? Surely you had the same problem every time?

Just for context and from memory , the car park had one set of lines for your vehicle which were narrow and another set for the gap between the next space, not one large marked out space that you find in supermarket type car parks.

 

[Official Old Man]

11390 : 0 to the good guys.

Excel Parking ordered to pay £10,240 in five-minute parking rule row

Excel Parking had demanded £11,390 from driver Hannah Robinson, but lost a court case against her.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[PascalGroß Tips]

11390 : 0 to the good guys.

Excel Parking ordered to pay £10,240 in five-minute parking rule row

Excel Parking had demanded £11,390 from driver Hannah Robinson, but lost a court case against her.

www.bbc.co.uk

These companies really are a bunch of shysters.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

a. It's unlikely to be a crime - breaking a made up contract at worst.
b. Private parking companies often carry out criminal behaviour in their 'enforcement' activities - particularly one based in Brighton who I'm not allowed to mention who's owner is a convicted criminal.

So parking wherever you like is 'breaking a made up contract' ?

How's the law firm going

I know this is going back over 12 months but ....

From my distant recollection of law (at uni in the 80's) there are "crimes" and "torts". Crimes involve breaking a law and police, CPS, magistrates court and crown court, etc. and those found guilty can be fined or incarcerated depending on severity.

Torts are a civil action, usually brought to a county court for breach of contract. The "remedy" is for the judge to decide. Who is right (wins) and is awarded damages as the remedy. The loser pays the damages. A tort does not have a custodial sentence option. However, if the defendant is found to be guilty and then does not do what the judge says eg pay a fine, this is a crime.

Maybe @happypig can correct / confirm?

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

So parking on double yellow lines would be a crime (breach of the Highways act?) but overstaying in Tesco's car park would be a tort (assuming their contract is enforceable) and herin lies the debate.

 

[Bodian]

So parking on double yellow lines would be a crime (breach of the Highways act?) but overstaying in Tesco's car park would be a tort (assuming their contract is enforceable) and herin lies the debate.

Sort of. Parking on double yellow lines is a an 'offence' under s5 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1988 - which is indeed technically a 'criminal offence', liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale (currently £1,000 - but the usual fine is around £70). As set out in the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 Sch 2, part 1.

But it seems in general not to be really considered a 'criminal offence' by the authorities / motoring bodies as it only carries punishment of a fine and doesn't go on your record as such. Double yellows can be set out under a Road Traffic Regulation Order made the provisions of the RTRA (not the Highways Act), but the powers to charge are then given to the councils (Penalty Charge Notices) and/or the Police (Fixed Penalty Notice). The confusion is made worse, by the fact that Traffic Wardens employed by the councils (who dish out the PCNs) are technically 'Civil Enforcement Officers' - thus implying that it's a civil enforcement matter.

If you get a FPN from the Police, it's usually because the yellow line parking is of a more serious nature than some - such as parking in a dangerous position. And this can bring points on your license as well.

Parking offences on private land - yes, civil matter.

I think, anyway.

 

[LadySeagull]

So parking on double yellow lines would be a crime (breach of the Highways act?) but overstaying in Tesco's car park would be a tort (assuming their contract is enforceable) and herin lies the debate.

Neither.

And as an aside, you can and should use double yellow lines when setting down/picking up a passenger (and on some DYL to load & unload or park with a blue badge). It's what they are there for.

Drives me mad when eejits think you can't stop in a DYL for the exempt activity they are there to enable!

But the answer is 'neither' because council enforcement is a 'decriminalised' regime, so there's no offence or crime.

And private parking scammers use contract law not tort. Not trespass.

Their signs usually offer you the space by saying 'by parking here in breach of the above t&cs you agree to pay £100' - that's not tort.

That's agreement by contract in their la-la land.

P.S. my group of PCN fighters heard about Hannah Robinson's case last week. How we laughed! Couldn't happen to a worse ex-wheelclamper then Excel.

They (their sister firm VCS) also lost a landmark Court of Appeal case last month where they tried to argue that it was fair to send a court claim form to an old DVLA address - no further address checks made - and cause a CCJ by default.

The CoA judges almost laughed at them and their barrister squirmed and coughed a lot, clearly knowing he had no chance. Mr Carr's barrister only had to say one sentence! VCS have to pay all costs.

This one is a binding judgment and it was filmed officially if anyone is interested:



So, parking firms can't now send court claims to (otherwise unchecked) DVLA vehicle addresses - confirmed in court. Something they do all the time to cause CCJs behind people's backs.

 

[Bodian]

They (their sister firm VCS) also lost a landmark Court of Appeal case last month where they tried to argue that it was fair to send a court claim form to an old DVLA address - no further address checks made - and cause a CCJ by default.

The CoA judges almost laughed at them and their barrister squirmed and coughed a lot, clearly knowing he had no chance. Mr Carr's barrister only had to say one sentence! VCS have to pay all costs.

This one is a binding judgment and it was filmed officially if anyone is interested:



So, parking firms can't now send court claims to (otherwise unchecked) DVLA vehicle addresses - confirmed in court. Something they do all the time to cause CCJs behind people's backs.

Has it been appealed to the Supreme Court?

 

[happypig]

I know this is going back over 12 months but ....

From my distant recollection of law (at uni in the 80's) there are "crimes" and "torts". Crimes involve breaking a law and police, CPS, magistrates court and crown court, etc. and those found guilty can be fined or incarcerated depending on severity.

Torts are a civil action, usually brought to a county court for breach of contract. The "remedy" is for the judge to decide. Who is right (wins) and is awarded damages as the remedy. The loser pays the damages. A tort does not have a custodial sentence option. However, if the defendant is found to be guilty and then does not do what the judge says eg pay a fine, this is a crime.

Maybe @happypig can correct / confirm?

As I understand it if you refuse to comply with a court order made by a civil court then you could be held "in contempt" and committed to prison but it's not a criminal conviction.

 

[Justice]

Assistance required please

Call Fab & trust the process.

 

[mothy]

Talk to Tony Taylor