[Football] Who’s not watching the World Cup?

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Pakistan treat the LGBT+ community appallingly - I think it is a fair question to ask why there isn't such uproar over a tour there, is it due to it not being as trendy ?

Pakistan didn't buy the tour in order to sportswash their godforsaken hell-hole of a country.
We'd also only be left with about 4 teams to play against if we applied that standard to which teams we play.
This did come up a few years ago when England were touring the West Indies, and Joe Root somehow found himself saying that there's nothing wrong with being gay while batting in the middle of a test match. Which probably spread that message more effectively than not touring would have done.
Given Pakistan toured England in the middle of the covid pandemic we can't really claim the moral high ground if we cancel the tour at this point, even if that was likely to be effective in any way.
As it happens, I've just cancelled my sky sports subscription for different reasons entirely, so I won't be watching it in any case. Can I still claim the moral high ground points anyway?

 

[Eeyore]

Neville makes a lot of salient points and I agree with a lot of what he says about the double standards. However, I had a giggle whilst listening to him speak for so long without hardly a pause for breath, because in the back of my mind, I could just hear Jaap Stam reiterating his infamous description of him and his brother.

I met Gary Neville at the start of his career on a train coming back from an Albion match in the north west. I didn't know who he was it's that long ago. We were both pretty young then. I must have chatted with him for a couple of hours and realised just how articulate and socially conscious he was. Always had time for him.

A little funny from that encounter. My seat turned out to be amongst the United youth team. Albion had just played them in the League Cup. One of their youngsters had come on, gone into the wrong position, and that led to Albion's equaliser. I joked about it with Gary and they took the mickey out of said lad who was on the train.

It was only years later that I realised it was David Beckham and that I'd been sitting with a sizeable number of future ECL winners.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Sports-washing of course has been suggested as to intent, however how effective has the washing been to date during this World Cup?

I don’t see how the Qatar regime has benefited from this world up at all, if anything it’s shined a light on the social failings beyond the footballing audience.

That said, is this just the start of more high profile events being placed there on the back of “winning” the WC bid in the future, which of course will probably be equally as ineffective, unless actual change is seen?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Pakistan treat the LGBT+ community appallingly - I think it is a fair question to ask why there isn't such uproar over a tour there, is it due to it not being as trendy ?

Perhaps it’s because hardly anybody likes cricket

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

You're right, they don't need to explain themselves but doesn't that go out the window as soon as they announce they are boycotting on a public forum! And once they have made a moral stand it's only fair that they can be challenged about other similar situations and whether they are consistant?

We are all inconsistent at times. Challenge away but I doubt people are that bothered.

 

[rippleman]

Good article about the shocking plight of women wanting to play football in Qatar.

Floodlights are on but women’s game in Qatar is kept in the dark

Qatar's women's team have not played a single competitive match since 2014.

metro.co.uk

In order to promote the women's game in Qatar they err have banned men from watching.

 

[Grizz]

I'm not sure you can really compare a single cricket tour to the greatest sporting tournament behind the Olympics, but I'll answer as best I can. I use to really enjoy watching the cricket, but that's waned now there is so much of it around and again other life priorities have come into play. I think England cricket still has a lot to do surrounding inclusivity, but it was great to hear Joe Root say what he said a while back. I doubt I'll watch any of the Pakistan tour and if we ever thought about visiting Pakistan then I'd do some thorough research regarding LGBT travel there and if it was too risky we wouldn't bother. That's just a fact of life for us when making these decisions.

It doesn't bother me if people posting these types of questions think I'm a hypocrite over my decision not to watch this WC, as I've said a couple of times, I'm still perfectly at peace with my decision.

 

[Steve in Japan]

Neville makes a lot of salient points and I agree with a lot of what he says about the double standards. However, I had a giggle whilst listening to him speak for so long without hardly a pause for breath, because in the back of my mind, I could just hear Jaap Stam reiterating his infamous description of him and his brother.

Following Neville's argument with Keane about Ronaldo's use (or lack thereof) on Sky, Neville said with characteristic humility "This is great television!" Alan Tyers wrote:-

"Neville is an altogether more interesting case. To say, “This is great television,” when you’re actually on the television, suggests a kind of gleeful enjoyment of one’s work that I personally find rather endearing. On the other hand, it is also a deeply uncool way to go on, like watching someone give themselves a pep-talk in the mirror, Steve Coogan’s salesman character Gareth Cheeseman telling himself: “You are a tiger.”

Neville now makes little self-shot videos for social media as he leaves the studio, debriefing his on-camera performances on camera. Like Charlie Brooker’s Nathan Barley, Gary truly has become a “self-facilitating media node”. He is commenting on the sport’s agenda, he is setting the sport’s agenda, he is observing himself on the television setting the sport’s agenda and he is liking what he is seeing."

 

[nicko31]

To me, the world cup has done the exact opposite of Sportswashing. It's brought into light things about Qatar that I was not overly aware of.

Sports-mucked?

I think its also brought into focus how much business the UK is doing with the Qataris, they're heavily invested in the UK.

 

[Hugo Rune]

“European nations wanting to wear OneLove captain's armbands are sending out a "divisive message", says Qatar World Cup chief Hassan Al-Thawadi.” BBC

Oh do **** off you homophobic ****.

Football is a western game. If you don’t like westerns values you need to bury your head in the Qatari sand (and hopefully suffocate).

 

[Questions]

What is your point ? Do you think Kane is preventing anyone from coming out ?

If he’s suppressing their sexuality again…… is he ?

 

[BadFish]

It would be a fair question if people are boycotting the world cup based only on LGBTQI+ issues. A read through this thread shows that it is the accumulation of factors that have caused many of us not to get involved.

 

[BadFish]

We are all inconsistent at times. Challenge away but I doubt people are that bothered.

The challenge seems to be the same each time anyway. Pick one of the list of reasons people are boycotting , apply some whattaboutery and ignore the other reasons on the list.

I am pretty comfortable with my decision accusation of hypocrisy and all. Also happy to answer anyone's questions as best I can.

Will I be boycotting the Pakistan tour?

Outside the occasional ashes over I don't watch cricket

 

[Greg Bobkin]

One seemingly under discussed bit of Fifa lunacy in the awarding of this World Cup to Qatar is legacy. Qatar is the smallest country in terms of both area and population ever to host the World Cup. In area terms the difference is stark. England, the second smallest nation to host is over ten times the size of Qatar's 11,586sqkm.

In population terms the next smallest is Uruguay which currently has a population of approx 3.5 million. Uruguay's tournament was the first ever, held in 1930, had only 13 teams after three withdrew and had 18 matches in 3 venues, all played in Montevideo. This year's has 32 teams and 64 matches. Qatar's current population of 2.8 million increased in size by approx. 69% between the announcement of the World Cup award in 2010 and this year. 88% of it's population is migrant workers.

The country has a football league with two divisions, the top one of which has 12 teams. Average attendances are hard to find, but are reported as being between 2,000 and 10,000 per match. Although what little evidence I can find would suggest this to be an overestimate*. Taking the mean average would suggest that there may be a total of approximately 36,000 people attending each round of six games in the league. (Somewhere near the same number that attend a round of National League fixtures in England). The eight stadiums built to host this tournament can, between them, accommodate over 400,000 people. That is over ten times the number of people currently attending football.

Reasons given for fans not attending matches include climate, lack of time, unsuitable atmospheres for females and the presence of paid fans. The latter factor reported by 69% of respondents in a 2014 Qatari Government survey suggests that, among the tiny number of fans attending, there are a significant number doing so because they were being paid to. https://web.archive.org/web/2015100...re-reluctant-attend-football-matches-stadiums. Presumably this practice, if still in operation will cease after the World Cup is over.

Qatar's government has, during a climate crisis, built eight massive white elephants and the accompanying infrastructure to be used just for this World Cup. This is what happened to one of Brazil's stadiums built for 2014: https://www.businessinsider.com/300-million-world-cup-stadium-is-nearly-abandoned-2018-6?r=US&IR=T. This is in Brazil's seventh largest city, that has a population of over 2 million. After the World Cup is over and a lot of the migrant workers do not have reason to remain, Qatar's population could revert to a similar number as Manuas' and they will have 8 (eight) of these stadiums.

Making mention of the National League brings to mind Darlington, who are now 13th in the National League North twenty years after George Reynolds said that they would be making the Premier League within 5 years. The stadium that Reynolds saddled them with is now the home to the local rugby club:



This World Cup was, in effect, awarded to George Reynolds and when it is over, the Fifa travelling circus will move on and leave Qatar looking like a nineties teenage old fooball fan had gone crazy on Sim City. Mind you, the current state of the world often makes me think that somewhere there is a teenager who has started sending in floods, fires, hurricanes, Brexit, Trump, Putin, Covid etc. because he's become bored with his world-making video game.

* - One Twitter user reports last's season's average attendance as 672, which would be about a seventh of the number attending National League games and a hundreth of the capacity now available.

I thought all (some of?) the stadiums were being dismantled after the tournament? Probably by the same migrant workers (well, those left who haven't been killed) who put them up in the first place?

 

[Springal]

I thought all (some of?) the stadiums were being dismantled after the tournament? Probably by the same migrant workers (well, those left who haven't been killed) who put them up in the first place?

Yes they are. And seats donated to various clubs / country FAs around the world.

I don’t think any of it really matters re country size / population. Vast majority of fans travel in anyway

And talking about carbon footprint surely having a tournament in a single city / small country is better than Brazil or South Africa where everyone relied on internal flights to get around and I imagine USA / Canada / Mexico will be even worse.

 

[Icy Gull]

I did not want to watch the WC as it’s tainted by venue and I am not a die hard England fan. However I have to hold my hand up and say that I started watching in earnest after the first couple of shock results. Have to say I reckon it’s been the best/most exciting WC group stage that I have ever seen. Having so many Albion and ex Albion players is a big bonus, and seeing so many MOTM performances by Albion players is fantastic.

England are doing OK too…I am not quite on that bandwagon yet though….

 

[Guinness Boy]

I did not want to watch the WC as it’s tainted by venue and I am not a die hard England fan. However I have to hold my hand up and say that I started watching in earnest after the first couple of shock results. Have to say I reckon it’s been the best/most exciting WC group stage that I have ever seen. Having so many Albion and ex Albion players is a big bonus, and seeing so many MOTM performances by Albion players is fantastic.

England are doing OK too…I am not quite on that bandwagon yet though….

Nearly well done Icy. Got to agree that thrashing Iran 6-2 was a difficult watch which saw die hard England fans throwing themselves off the bandwagon in record numbers

And, on a serious note, this has been an absolutely superb World Cup with shocks, great goals, shit goals and lots of Brighton and Ex-Brighton involvement. If you're still holding out, fair play to you

 

[Springal]

Nearly well done Icy. Got to agree that thrashing Iran 6-2 was a difficult watch which saw die hard England fans throwing themselves off the bandwagon in record numbers

And, on a serious note, this has been an absolutely superb World Cup with shocks, great goals, shit goals and lots of Brighton and Ex-Brighton involvement. If you're still holding out, fair play to you

And one of the highest for tv ratings. The opening Qatar Ecuador game had about 50% more viewers than the opener in Russia.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

The World Cup has now started with the knockout stage. Us gloryhunters are now here to swell the ranks of those of you that put up with West Samoa v Uzbekistan or whatever it was that was on.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

And one of the highest for tv ratings. The opening Qatar Ecuador game had about 50% more viewers than the opener in Russia.

Yeah, but that was because we were promised beheadings for the pre match entertainment. That didn’t materialize and viewing figures have been way lower since.