What's caused the downfall of this country?

[hans kraay fan club]

no the means tested system is wank.

just because my parents earn more than 30k does not mean they can afford to give out that amount of money.

it also does not take into account how many children in the family. 29k for a family with one child is a lot easier to support than 31k with four children all going to university.

Even before the times of student loans, the means-testing was always like that, though. Its nothing new. We were in exactly the situation you describe. My parents were normal middle-class proffessionals, with no spare cash and 4 kids who all went through Uni. the government gave us nothing because we were 'well off', and my parents could afford to give us little. Thus the 40 hour working week.

Well, unfortunately, quite rightly, higher education costs money. You can either afford it or not. Whatever opinion you hold these are the facts.

Without wishing to discriminate along class lines, and make further education a closed shop for the 'posh', I think people do need to recognise this fact, a little more. The truth is, if you really want that qualification, then you'll have to be prepared to pay for it.

Anyone, however poor CAN do this, if they are prepared to put enough effort in. They can either work full time for a year [or 2, or 3] BEFORE they go to college, and save up [that may mean living at home, and foregoing boozy nights out and football], or they can work through their time at college, or they can accept the debts and pay for it later.

Beat this for FLAIR expenditure: I've used my student loan to go on 3 holidays this year, with 2 more to come

Fair play. See, I've no issue with that attitude, so long as its consistent, and isn't followed by an 'I'm poor, why won't the government give me more free money' whine 6 months down the line. Fill your boots.

 

[Djmiles]

Sorry, my mistake. The £60K household income threshold where the student can still receive a partial maintenance grant (albeit £50) applies to those starting courses this autumn. For undergraduates already at university, the figures seem to be:

Working out how much you’ll get for 2008/2009
You’ll be able to get at least a partial grant if your household income is £39,305 or under.

Exactly how much is available depends on your household income - check the table below for an idea of what you’ll get.

Household income Amount of grant
Up to £18,360 Full grant - £2,835
£20,000 £2,562
£25,000 £1,729
£27,810 £1,260
£30,000 £1,030
£35,000 £504
£39,305 £50
More than £39,305 No grant

Sounds more like it!

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

no the means tested system is wank.

i know a lot of people who don't live with both parents. the mum does not have income, other than the money their ex partner gives them, and the student is completely paid for by their dad, "pocket money" the lot. they also get more than £1000 a year which does not need paying back..

So you've another issue with estranged/divorced parents giving their children money to help finance then through university? So what do you suggest because I doubt there's any legal obligation (ie from the divorce settlement) on the father to continue "paying" towards the children after they've left school? Life's just a bitch sometimes.

just because my parents earn more than 30k does not mean they can afford to give out that amount of money..

Quite understand this; we addressed this potential issue by planning/saving well in advance - as I posted elsewhere, our son was eight when we started.

it also does not take into account how many children in the family. 29k for a family with one child is a lot easier to support than 31k with four children all going to university.

From memory of completing one of the income assessment forms earlier this summer, there is allowance of just over £1000 for each additional dependant child. Using your scenario, the £31K "family" should get an assessed income of about £28K and each child, assuming they're all at university at the same time, should be eligible for a maintenance grant of £1000+, the exact figure being dependant upon when they started their course.

 

[Djmiles]

Some of the opinions on this subject do seem a little odd.

If your parents earn £40k combined for example, you would receive no extra money which is fair enough in theory. However if your parents are paying a hefty mortgage, rocketing bills, petrol etc etc it's quite often not possible for parents to help out.

So that leaves the average student with £3,200 or so for the year, sounds great!

However if your BASIC accomodation is £3,000 a year, you've got £200 to live on. Now the warped opinions of NSC seem to think that no student has ever had a job, nor is willing to get one in the future. I worked a fair bit at Sainsbury's the 2 years I spent at college earning enough so I could live a bit more comfortably at University.

Now it doesn't take a genius to work out that anyone would be in a spot of bother regarding money. But the government think that any family earning over £39k a year can support 3 children going to University, which is slightly diluded, especially with the rising costs of everything.

I'm currently £15,000 in debt and looking for a job, which is fine because I knew I would be in severe debt when I started. What I disagree with is the fact that the government just assume all middle class families can afford this, which couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Some of the opinions on this subject do seem a little odd.

If your parents earn £40k combined for example, you would receive no extra money which is fair enough in theory. However if your parents are paying a hefty mortgage, rocketing bills, petrol etc etc it's quite often not possible for parents to help out.

So that leaves the average student with £3,200 or so for the year, sounds great!

However if your BASIC accomodation is £3,000 a year, you've got £200 to live on. Now the warped opinions of NSC seem to think that no student has ever had a job, nor is willing to get one in the future. I worked a fair bit at Sainsbury's the 2 years I spent at college earning enough so I could live a bit more comfortably at University.

Now it doesn't take a genius to work out that anyone would be in a spot of bother regarding money. But the government think that any family earning over £39k a year can support 3 children going to University, which is slightly diluded, especially with the rising costs of everything.

I'm currently £15,000 in debt and looking for a job, which is fine because I knew I would be in severe debt when I started. What I disagree with is the fact that the government just assume all middle class families can afford this, which couldn't be further from the truth.

I don't think anyone has written anything that disagrees with that?

 

[One True BHA]

Some of the opinions on this subject do seem a little odd.

If your parents earn £40k combined for example, you would receive no extra money which is fair enough in theory. However if your parents are paying a hefty mortgage, rocketing bills, petrol etc etc it's quite often not possible for parents to help out.

So that leaves the average student with £3,200 or so for the year, sounds great!

However if your BASIC accomodation is £3,000 a year, you've got £200 to live on. Now the warped opinions of NSC seem to think that no student has ever had a job, nor is willing to get one in the future. I worked a fair bit at Sainsbury's the 2 years I spent at college earning enough so I could live a bit more comfortably at University.

Now it doesn't take a genius to work out that anyone would be in a spot of bother regarding money. But the government think that any family earning over £39k a year can support 3 children going to University, which is slightly diluded, especially with the rising costs of everything.

I'm currently £15,000 in debt and looking for a job, which is fine because I knew I would be in severe debt when I started. What I disagree with is the fact that the government just assume all middle class families can afford this, which couldn't be further from the truth.

you're spot on

 

[kalinski]

if this poll really reflects the support of the Albion, i am starting to think that i support the wrong team. i never thought we were a racist club. feel quite sad that a quarter of the people responding could blame the colour of someone's skin for the problems we are facing...considering a large % of them were invited to come here to fill the jobs "we" didn't want.

 

[One True BHA]

No chance of that. I don't have a lot of money, but I think this is the last period of my life in which I can have a carefree approach with it. In a year or so I'll probably have to look for a job, and that'll mean 4 weeks holiday a year, of which I'll be lucky to spend a couple overseas. So, why not just go mental now? I've been on holiday 5 times in the last 12 months, I've got 2 more booked before christmas, and I'll be doing a mega trip somewhere next summer. I run a car, I buy nice food, and I go to every one of albion's home games, as well as about 20 of the 23 away. It won't last forever, chaps, so enjoy it while you can, and don't waste time moaning about who gets given what by the government.

how do you afford that? what pays for rent?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I think a lot of the voters on the poll, were doing so 'tongue-in-cheek'.

 

[Icy Gull]

In answer to the original question on the thread..shit parenting has to be the starting point, whatever the reasons

 

[hans kraay fan club]

how do you afford that? what pays for rent?

Presumably he lives at home, and opted for a course at a local Uni, so that he could do just that.

 

[WATFORD zero]

There are many ways that you can fund yourself through University or you can do what i did.

I didn't go to University as i came from a single Parent Family in a council flat and at 16 i had to start work and earn money to bring in to the household. However, by working hard for the last 32 years, i now have a comfortable lifestyle.

But for some reason not going to University because you can't afford it doesn't seem to be an acceptable option for most would be captains of industry today

 

[British Bulldog]

All this talk of university is all well and good but I do have some sympathy for the kids who dont do so well at school and dont go onto college and university, The opportunities and openings for those kids are very limited these days.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Some of the opinions on this subject do seem a little odd.

If your parents earn £40k combined for example, you would receive no extra money which is fair enough in theory. However if your parents are paying a hefty mortgage, rocketing bills, petrol etc etc it's quite often not possible for parents to help out.

So that leaves the average student with £3,200 or so for the year, sounds great!

However if your BASIC accomodation is £3,000 a year, you've got £200 to live on. Now the warped opinions of NSC seem to think that no student has ever had a job, nor is willing to get one in the future. I worked a fair bit at Sainsbury's the 2 years I spent at college earning enough so I could live a bit more comfortably at University.

Now it doesn't take a genius to work out that anyone would be in a spot of bother regarding money. But the government think that any family earning over £39k a year can support 3 children going to University, which is slightly diluded, especially with the rising costs of everything.

I'm currently £15,000 in debt and looking for a job, which is fine because I knew I would be in severe debt when I started. What I disagree with is the fact that the government just assume all middle class families can afford this, which couldn't be further from the truth.

I don't think anyone has written anything that disagrees with that?

I don't disagree with anything you've said either DJM except that I don't believe the £39K or £60K cut-offs are anything to do with class; just financial limits pure and simple.
All I can say is that my wife and I planned for the eventuality that both our kids might go to university and this has impacted upon many of the financial, housing and employment decisions we have taken over the past 13-14 years. We knew that, regardless of the party of government, the situation would never be the same as when we were there in the 70's and 80's so we made our funding of their university education a priority.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What? In a nutshell, in the earlier update you said what has the UK got that Western Europe would want/desire. What does the UK do better?

HatterslovesBrighton said Financial Services. I concur with that and I stated that only Tokyo and Wall Street (in New York) are comparable to the City of London.

Is that clear enough?

What you have said is clear, totally...........but there is no explanation. I just wanted to know on what critieria you based this judgement.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

admittedly i didnt go to university myself , but most of my colleagues who did tell me that degree courses could be condensed to 18 months , which would save a lot obviously on accomodation food etc , any thoughts ?

You must be joking? I did a maths and statistics degree and it was a four year degree. There is absolutely no way you could do this in 18 months.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

why dont you f*** off there then ?

Just waiting for full-on independence to be declared