What would have happened if we stayed at The Goldstone?

[BensGrandad]

I have no idea what the demolition costs were but the club got under 7 million and once the ground had been demolished it was resold for over 20 million. The only ridiculous thing is that we got shafted

If BA and GS had stayed in control would they have used some of that extra£14m to build a new stadium nobody will ever know. Did they look at it and say we have had shit bollox to them its our money we are keeping it. I dont know, only 2 people do and we will never find out the truth. As it turned out £7m each was neither here nor there to either of them.

 

[Icy Gull]

If BA and GS had stayed in control would they have used some of that extra£14m to build a new stadium nobody will ever know. Did they look at it and say we have had shit bollox to them its our money we are keeping it. I dont know, only 2 people do and we will never find out the truth. As it turned out £7m each was neither here nor there to either of them.

I have no proof, but I will believe until the day I die that there were mega backhands on the re-sale of the ground to the very people who sold the ground on behalf of the club who then lined their own pockets rather than the clubs.

 

[BensGrandad]

I have no proof, but I will believe until the day I die that there were mega backhands on the re-sale of the ground to the very people who sold the ground on behalf of the club who then lined their own pockets rather than the clubs.

Highly probable but it is a question that will remain unanswered.

A similar thing happened at Hillingdon Borough where Mr A was chairman of the club, B & C were directors, they sold the ground to a developement company that had B as chairman and A & C were directors, who allowed a building company that had C as chairman and A & B as directors to build a number of houses 3 winners 1 loser the football club.

The annoying things is that neither Archer nor Stanley needed the money and Bellotti was just the puppet who had his strings pulled.

 

[Zesh Rehman]

But given the choice, playing at the Goldstone or Falmer..surely you would pick Goldstone?

QUOTE]

absolute bollox

The Goldstone may have been the spiritual home of the club but by 1997 had long gone past its death knell. It wasn't big enough for the changes that have overtaken football since 1989. Bits were gradulally being closed down because they were unsafe and uneconomic to repair. There were not enough seats and remember it would have had to have been converted to an all seater. The Police would not allow a second tier to the North Stand because of the access isses onto the Old Shoreham Road. the whole of the east terrace would have had to have been replaced and those home owners in Goldstone lane would have put up an almighty fight citing the dubious covenant restricting the height of any development.
I don't believe it would have passed the test for a new Safety Certificate ny the Council who could then have summarily closed the place down.

To me the existance of the club is always more of a priority than staying at an outdated ground - whichg was the choice we faced in 97.

Still bloody miss it though

completely agree

 

[Man of Harveys]

If BA and GS had stayed in control would they have used some of that extra£14m to build a new stadium nobody will ever know. Did they look at it and say we have had shit bollox to them its our money we are keeping it. I dont know, only 2 people do and we will never find out the truth. As it turned out £7m each was neither here nor there to either of them.

You honestly think that the thought of actually building a new Brighton stadium ever once entered those two's heads? Seriously?

Take that back: of course we won't ever know for sure. But, just as as neither of us has actually asked Hitler whether he personally liked Jewish people or not, I'd be prepared to make a relatively well-informed guess on the matter. Strewth.

 

[BensGrandad]

You honestly think that the thought of actually building a new Brighton stadium ever once entered those two's heads? Seriously?

Take that back: of course we won't ever know for sure. But, just as as neither of us has actually asked Hitler whether he personally liked Jewish people or not, I'd be prepared to make a relatively well-informed guess on the matter. Strewth.

That is my point I know that talks were at a very advanced stage about A27 site and also BL apparently got the hump with BA when he wouldnt sign the contract concerning Beeding so they must have had some thoughts on it. As I have said the annoying things is that they were/are very wealthy so £7m was not a major consideration where it would be to me and many more.

 

[Man of Harveys]

Christ - that is some breathtaking revisionism of history, IMHO. I mean, I'm damn sure that I know my memories of what happened to the club between 1994-1997 are sound, as are no doubt those of many others on here. But I never thought I'd read something that makes me feel akin to what a holocaust survivor must feel whilst reading David Irving.

Seriously - I can't believe I'm writing this - just to check in case I've grasped the wrong end of the stick (in which case, sincere apologies): you reckon that Bill Archer at one point actually truly intended to build a new stadium? For Brighton and Hove Albion? Really? Rather than just asset-stripping a club he cared or actually knew virtually nothing about?

I truly don't mean to be insulting but I think that anyone who genuinely believes that to be the case really needs a good lie-down and the services of a good sanatorium. Because that's truly fantastic, in every sense of the word.

 

[sir albion]

The goldstone was on its last legs anyway,a crumbling wreck with hardly any future sadly.

 

[BensGrandad]

I do genuinely believe that the original intention of GS was to improve and bring us up but other circumstances took over and we all know what happened in the end. I am not trying to justify or excuse what they did but I do know that negotiations for a new ground were at an advanced stage at one point.

 

[Kev_England]

I suppose with the digging cermony coming up at Falmer I have this on my mind: What I guess I'm trying to straighten out is if there is a definitive answer to these questions:

Lets forget about Archer et. all. and try and focus on realistic choices.

1. Would it have been viable to stay at Goldstone?

From my recolections from late eighties and video Ive seen of the 90's, the whole place really needed to be torn down and rebuilt. Probably also buying up the light-industrial workshops to the south of the staduim and the car dealer to the south west would have been needed to allow expansion and put it in line with the staduims being built at that time. I think this option would have been impossible due to the small fanbase I beleive was being attracted at the time, i.e. lack of potential investors.

The other option would have been to renovate. This too probably would have been difficult since were there any investors who really believed Brighton could become a viable money earner at that time? Im guessing no.

2. Would it have been possible to build a new staduim in the late 1990s and move there directly from the Goldstone?

The repsonses already have really covered this: probably yes, but with difficulty.

So, Im left thinking: well, the whole thing got totally bolloxed up in 1997 when there was a chance we could have moved directly to a new staduim. But it didnt happen. However we now have Falmer. Yea, it is a sterile place and theres no boozers or direct public transport. But, in 10 years maybe it will really take on a life of its own and become a REAL home.
But man, we were at The Goldstone for nearly 100 years!

 

[Voice of Reason]

What are you saying? The Goldstone has gone? Not for me it hasn't - it's still there.

Not going near there again. Never will. Flew over it once out of Shoreham and the pilot said look, that's where the Goldstone was. Had to close my eyes.

Don't ever forget what happened - running it into the ground was always part of the plan.

Rejoice though - Falmer gets ever closer. My parents, who live in Saltdean, are convinced they will be overrun every Saturday afternoon with football yobs!

 

[Nottseagull]

I have no idea what the demolition costs were but the club got around 7 million ( you may be right thinking about it, that it was nearer to 8 million) and once the ground had been demolished it was resold for over 20 million. Are you suggesting it cost 12million to demolish the ground or that we got a fair price at around 8 million?? If so, both those assertions sound pretty ridiculous to me

They are ridiculous, there again I didn't make them. The difference between the amount the club acheived for the freehold and the amount the finished development was eventually sold for was about £14m, made up of demolition and redevelopment costs plus profit. Nobody disputes that the value of the retail park was around £21m, yet you are suggesting the club should have received over £20m just for the ground without it being redeveloped! (Let us remind ourselves of this):

More to the point, what would have happened if the club had received the real value of the Goldstone which was over 20 million rather than the paltry 6 million Stanley and Archer achieved?

The excess profit was made by the developers because they didn't pay a fair price to a company on the verge of being wound up.

 

[Horney]

I'm afraid that I am pretty cynical where most football club chairmen and directors are concerned and personally, I don't believe that anyone representing BHA had the slightest interest in any ground redevelopment up to 1997. The erection of the ' Lego ' stand ( a freestanding mixture of scaffolding and tarpaulin betwixt West and North stands ) prior to our 1st ever season in the top flight was a cheap and tatty attempt to squeeze in another 1000 fans with minimum outlay.
I believe that we were generally unlucky as fans to be landed with directors who were too self centred. If the will had been there, redevelopment could have taken place at the Goldstone. The major problem area was always the East Terrace and I believe that a low level covered stand, split, to house away fans in the southern half would have been the answer.
Ramshackle it may have been but transport me back to Oct 1976 when firstly, on a wet and windy night, Peter Ward and Ian Mellor scored 7 goals between them ( in 27 2nd half minutes !!! ) against Walsall and then 3 weeks later 33000+ crammed in to witness the most exciting and amazing opening 60 seconds ( v Derby ) of football ever seen at the old ground.
Happy Days.

 

[Kev_England]

...

Rejoice though - Falmer gets ever closer. My parents, who live in Saltdean, are convinced they will be overrun every Saturday afternoon with football yobs!

Ha ha! I love it! My mum was always complaining at being pinned into the house (we live within spitting distance of Hove station) for 20 Saturdays each year! Along with all the graffiti along our street, piss smell everwhere (especially around the steps over the railway bridge and down to the back of Ellen road). There's still CPFC graffitti at the back of the flats by our house.

Me and my mates loved it though!

Ive since been back several times and watched games at Withdean--no sports fan should be made to go thru that embarrasement. I now watch live game here in the US and the local team here has a better staduim than Brighton. NOW THAT IS EMBARRASING!

In fact, most high schools have better staduims than Withdean over here.

 

[Nottseagull]

... it is a sterile place and theres no boozers or direct public transport.

Funny, I could have sworn there was a direct railway line to Brighton and Lewes.

 

[steward 433]

Funny, I could have sworn there was a direct railway line to Brighton and Lewes.

And a supporters bar.

 

[Kev_England]

Funny, I could have sworn there was a direct railway line to Brighton and Lewes.

Yes, you are right--of course Falmer station. But its still no Goldstone with a main train station, and a multitude of bus routes.

Interestingly, I found this on Univ Susses site:

Q: Will Falmer station be redeveloped to cope with all the fans arriving by train?
A: The plans involve a number of vandal-proofing measures including a new footbridge over the railway line, and pens, so that stewards could control the flow of fans on to the station after the match.

 

[steward 433]

Kev there are also the two park and rides and there are several buses an hour that stop at the University which is a 1 minute walk from the stadium.

 

[Kev_England]

Kev there are also the two park and rides and there are several buses an hour that stop at the University which is a 1 minute walk from the stadium.

Oh right, ta. I'm not familiar with that area. Never strayed too far from Hove. And since then Ive been over 'ere in the colonies.

 

[The Large One]

Christ - that is some breathtaking revisionism of history, IMHO. I mean, I'm damn sure that I know my memories of what happened to the club between 1994-1997 are sound, as are no doubt those of many others on here. But I never thought I'd read something that makes me feel akin to what a holocaust survivor must feel whilst reading David Irving.

Seriously - I can't believe I'm writing this - just to check in case I've grasped the wrong end of the stick (in which case, sincere apologies): you reckon that Bill Archer at one point actually truly intended to build a new stadium? For Brighton and Hove Albion? Really? Rather than just asset-stripping a club he cared or actually knew virtually nothing about?

I truly don't mean to be insulting but I think that anyone who genuinely believes that to be the case really needs a good lie-down and the services of a good sanatorium. Because that's truly fantastic, in every sense of the word.

The biggest case to be made for the fact that there were no plans for any re-location (apart from to groundshare with Portsmouth) could lie in the fact that no planning applications were made for any new site - to either Horsham District Council for the Beeding site, nor to Hove Borough Council for the Toad's Hole Valley site.

And even regarding the done deal to share with Portsmouth, Bill Archer came in and tore it up, saying he wasn't interested in doing that - after Portsmouth was over 200 miles away.