What is the MATTER with people in East Belfast?

[Simster]

f***ing quality.

 

[red star portslade]

If they softened their accents, they'd have less fights.

 

[El Presidente]

It is an embarrassment all round between one bunch whose religious motto is 'You don't have to be a paedophile to preach here but it helps', and the other whose religion was set up because the King at the time wanted to shag a bird other than his wife legitimately.

Wouldn't have any of this if we were all atheists.

 

[Buzzer]

Pol Pot, Stalin, Castro, Mao...all atheists. So in answer, yes..if we were all atheists then bad things would still happen.

 

[Spanish Seagulls]

How happy would you be if parliament decided to only fly the Union Jack over other British towns on 'Special occasions', having said that there's no excuse for violence like this.

Like at many London Borough Town Halls you mean?

 

[martyn20]

Like at many London Borough Town Halls you mean?

I was really thinking of places that usually do fly the flag all the time, as was the situation in Belfast, but you are correct most places don't fly the flag all the time

 

[Spanish Seagulls]

The shame of it is that there are a lot of young people with nothing better to do than cause disturbances, a lot of the ringleaders are ex paramilitaries who have been marginalised so are using this issue to flex their muscles. On both sides there are gangsters & thugs utilising the situation to their own ends.

 

[daveinprague]

I'm not avoiding anything, I've alrteady given you my answer.

You gave me an example of simultaneous attacks in 1969?... 3 years after the time im talking about...maybe you have different meaning to the word simultaneous?

 

[Hillian1]

It's all OK, They're flying the flag today for Kates 31st Birthday, I'm sure that will appease everyone.

 

[User removed 4]

You gave me an example of simultaneous attacks in 1969?... 3 years after the time im talking about...maybe you have different meaning to the word simultaneous?

perhaps you can send me a link to troops defending catholics in 1966, i'll be amazed if you can.

 

[daveinprague]

The question was about protestants burning catholic communities.....you said it was being done by both sides...i gave you examples in 1966/1967 and asked you to show me evidence of catholics burning out out protestants at the same time...ill concede there has been a cross of communication here...however the main point of this, is that the protestants started the shit.... were the British troops sent to NI to protect the Protestant community?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

What a coincidence, that was the first thing I found when I googled it too. Trouble is all he talks about is inter-marriage. He doesn't refer to that giving any understanding of 20th century politics in N.Ireland. You can go on all you want about your ancestors being displaced but your knowledge of aboriginal persecution gives no better insight into the particular history of Irish displacement any more than I can claim to understand the Lithuanian diaspora because us Brighton fans were also made homeless once upon a time.

I have aboriginal relatives who are a product of these interracial relationships. So I do have an insight into their history. Happy to give you names of those people so you can google it all and verify the family links.

So I can go on all I want because I have a far better path to their insight than say, you.

You seem blissfully unaware that in many cultures oral tradition meant that stories of persecution were passed down from one generation to the next. as children we were told stories by our Grandparents of things that happened to theirs back in Ireland. Just because you know nothing about your families past doesn't mean every family is like that.

Even that day trip as a kiddie to County Clare counts for diddly squat in regards to this debate about Belfast. The mass emigration from Clare occurred in the 19th century, by which time Ulster and particularly Belfast had already been a Protestant majority for centuries - unlike County Clare which was overwhelmingly Catholic. Belfast was even then an industrial city, Clare was largely rural. What happened and is happening in Belfast was and is different to what happened in the rural southern Ireland and is geographically (sic) a world away from what the abo's have had to put up with from your fellow countrymen. The only common factor is that people were displaced and persecuted.

Given that is the crux of the whole trouble. Well done for linking both the North and the South.

Go to Clare today and the people there will still have much underlying resentment towards what happened in the past. I know this because I was Vice President of a Gaelic Football club out here. We had young Irish men and women from all over Ireland come through to play over the years. Almost all held republican views because in that environment they openly discussed it. When Gerry Adams came out to Melbourne many years back he came to Gaelic park in Melbourne to speak and fund raise. Guess what? The majority of people who paid to go see him and donate money to him were NOT from NI. They were southerners.

If you think a RC person from Cork is so far removed from that of RC from Belfast you're deluded.

There's a reason why the Irish and the Palestinians have shown outward support of each over the years(yes once again it's called "empathy").

 

[User removed 4]

The question was about protestants burning catholic communities.....you said it was being done by both sides...i gave you examples in 1966/1967 and asked you to show me evidence of catholics burning out out protestants at the same time...ill concede there has been a cross of communication here...however the main point of this, is that the protestants started the shit.... were the British troops sent to NI to protect the Protestant community?

You didnt give me a single example from 1966/7 , and like I said before , the protestants have woeful PR , both sides were at it, but you carry on swalllowing/peddling the " to be sure we're just out for the craic " style bullshit which suits you and your support anyone but my own country stance.

 

[daveinprague]

I didnt...maybe the large post there is an illusion? Again, youre avoiding.


Heres the non example you are referring to...
page6

'Link me up bushy with tales of protestants being burned out by catholic mobs, and we will compare the dates...im not bullying you...dont run away...let me see some evidence of simultaneous attacks.

Ill start...you counter eh?

The UVF is an illegal loyalist paramilitary organization that formed in response to a perceived revival of the IRA at the time of the 50th anniversary of the Easter Rising. That month the UVF began a campaign of intimidation against a Catholic-owned off-licence on the Shankill Road. Its members painted sectarian graffiti on the neighbouring house and threw a petrol bomb through the window, killing a 77-year-old Protestant widow.On 21 May 1966, the UVF issued a statement:'


I do support my country Bushy, but also have the mental agility to recognise its wrong doings.


oh, btw....this says so much about you
'the " to be sure we're just out for the craic " style bullshit'

 

[User removed 4]

I didnt...maybe the large post there is an illusion? Again, youre avoiding.


Heres the non example you are referring to...
page6

'Link me up bushy with tales of protestants being burned out by catholic mobs, and we will compare the dates...im not bullying you...dont run away...let me see some evidence of simultaneous attacks.

Ill start...you counter eh?

The UVF is an illegal loyalist paramilitary organization that formed in response to a perceived revival of the IRA at the time of the 50th anniversary of the Easter Rising. That month the UVF began a campaign of intimidation against a Catholic-owned off-licence on the Shankill Road. Its members painted sectarian graffiti on the neighbouring house and threw a petrol bomb through the window, killing a 77-year-old Protestant widow.On 21 May 1966, the UVF issued a statement:'
I do support my country Bushy, but also have the mental agility to recognise its wrong doings.


oh, btw....this says so much about you
'the " to be sure we're just out for the craic " style bullshit'

Well you've blown me out of the water with that one, a petrol bomb and graffiti, no doubt emergency cabinet meetings were called and spearhead battalions were mobilised for such momentous unrest, whilst not very nice for the people involved, hardly the protestant pogroms that you're trying to ilustrate is it ?

 

[daveinprague]

That was just part of the post Bushy, as you know...read the original post (you know, the one that isnt there) again........tell me about the other incidents mentioned there?

 

[Tom Bombadil]

The shame of it is that there are a lot of young people with nothing better to do than cause disturbances, a lot of the ringleaders are ex paramilitaries who have been marginalised so are using this issue to flex their muscles. On both sides there are gangsters & thugs utilising the situation to their own ends.

I think this is it, youngsters who have grown up since the ceasefire and therefore have no real memory of the last cycle of violence are being exploited by those opposed to that ceasefire in the first place. And it's not just the loyalists, on the Republican side the rise in activities of the paramilitaries is in part explained by the same process.

 

[User removed 4]

I think this is it, youngsters who have grown up since the ceasefire and therefore have no real memory of the last cycle of violence are being exploited by those opposed to that ceasefire in the first place. And it's not just the loyalists, on the Republican side the rise in activities of the paramilitaries is in part explained by the same process.

I dont think the general public as a whole on either side would ever show the same level of support to the paramiltaries , tacit or otherwise , to allow a return to the troubles, they've had a taste of living their lives in some semblance of normality, and they are in no hurry to return to the bad old days.

 

[Nibble]

The so-called IRA is a bastardised organisation now anyway. Used by many as a cover for drug smuggling, arms smuggling, car theft rings to name a few of their activities. This used to be done to raise funds for the struggle, now it's to make individuals money. You get a hardcore few but most of them form fractured groups as they get fed up with the community crime. Interestingly there has also been an increasing presence of Neo Fascist folks aligning themselves with the IRA.

In times of Austerity you will always get a section of society aligning themselves with extreme groups and it's no coincidence that recent economical pressures have coincided with these recent outbreaks of troubles in NI. In Greece it's that Golden Dawn lot, in England it's BNP and Ukip in Ireland they have the IRA so young, easliy influenced people align themselves with the few hardcore numbskulls who want to cause trouble.

There has always and will always be murmering social, religious and political prejudice in Ireland but I seriously doubt the average Irelander wants in any way a return to the Ireland of 3 decades ago.

 

[El Presidente]

Pol Pot, Stalin, Castro, Mao...all atheists. So in answer, yes..if we were all atheists then bad things would still happen.

Oi..............Castro is COOL (but the others weren't).