[Finance] What is 'rich' in 2023?

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What is 'rich' in 2023?

  • Household earnings of £50K+

    Votes: 10 3.7%
  • Household earnings of £80K+

    Votes: 14 5.2%
  • Household earnings of £100K+

    Votes: 39 14.4%
  • Household earnings of £150K+

    Votes: 51 18.8%
  • Household earnings of £200K+

    Votes: 54 19.9%
  • Household earnings of £500K+

    Votes: 68 25.1%
  • Household earnings of £1,000,000+

    Votes: 35 12.9%

  • Total voters
    271


Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,423
Oxton, Birkenhead
if the figures are to be believed the increase of income required from 2022 to 2023 is frightening

According to the Rowntree Organisation in 2022 A single person needs to earn £25,500 a year to reach a minimum acceptable standard of living in April 2022. A couple with two children needs to earn £43,400 between them.

while in 2023 Project Finance worry free say a total household income of £80,000 puts you in a great position to cover your expenses, save some money for a rainy day and retirement, and have a little left over for some leisure expenses!

Credit Suisse in 2021 said there are approximately 685,500 Britons in the richest 1%, with a total wealth of £2.8 Trillion
As a comparison, 48 million Britons, 70 per cent of the population, have a total wealth of £2.4 billion
How do we interpret those numbers though ? Total household income is only half the equation as it excludes debt. Some of the highest income households have the biggest mortgages and so are being disproportionately effected by the interest rate increases. For everybody else there is such a variation in debt levels as to make the overall figure pretty meaningless.
 




Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,423
Oxton, Birkenhead
And yet if you are in the top 3% of UK households at that number you would be absolutely nowhere near being able to afford a house in the top 3% of house values. My generation (40 ish) have been screwed by the Boomer generation in the housing market, but for the generation below me it’s absolutely ridiculous.

I’ve got a friend about 10 years younger than me that did extremely well in a sales job in his 20’s, earning around six figures most years. He saved as hard as he could for years and with no help from his parents finally managed to purchase a bang average 2 bed flat in a reasonable part of Hove, with a big mortgage. In a fair economy, someone should be able to buy a flat like that earning only a little more than the average wage, surely?

How my kids are ever going to buy a house I have absolutely no idea. Especially once I’ve spunked all their inheritance travelling around Europe watching the Albion in the Champions League for the next twenty seasons.
Both of my kids have recently bought houses (up north). They did it by saving for their deposits just like I did a generation ago. Perhaps your issue with the housing market is a consequence of your location in the SE of England. It is not the fault of an entire generation who just did what you want to do but can’t because of all those well paid people in London moving South and also inflows of global investment money.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,389
Former Conservative party chairman, Chris Patten...


i like Patten so was expecting to find good verification. i cant, only news repeating the claim. closest can find is proportion of income share for lowest 20% is lower in UK. 20% is unusal comparison.
 


Commander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Apr 28, 2004
13,030
London
Both of my kids have recently bought houses (up north). They did it by saving for their deposits just like I did a generation ago. Perhaps your issue with the housing market is a consequence of your location in the SE of England. Your market is driven by all those well paid jobs in London and global investors.
Yes definitely. That’s the problem with somewhere like Brighton- the housing market is driven by the wealth of London, but it’s very difficult to earn that kind of money in Brighton.
 






Paulie Gualtieri

Bada Bing
NSC Patron
May 8, 2018
9,432
I'd agree with that. Back in 2010 the government implemented the policy of eroding personal allowance by £1 for every £2 earned over 100K - aka the 100K 60% tax trap. £100K in 2010 is the equivalent to about 144K today, so definitely a really good annual income. These days more and more people are hitting that threshold, which hasn't shifted despite 13 years worth of inflation.
Not forgetting those affected roll straight from the “60% rate” onto the 45% rate now
 


The Grockle

Formally Croydon Seagull
Sep 26, 2008
5,702
Dorset
I think by many people's standards our household would be well off but our outgoings are 3.5k a month, we are not frivolous don't take many holidays and live modestly.

It seems we have to work incredibly hard to live what seems like a fairly ordinary lifestyle compared to what my parents did. I strongly believe that we are much, much worse off on an income to outgoings ratio to a family 25 years ago.
 


Paulie Gualtieri

Bada Bing
NSC Patron
May 8, 2018
9,432
The FCA handbook deems an individual as an Ultra High Net Work Individual when;

high net worth mortgage customer​

  1. a customer with an annual net income of no less than £300,000 or net assets of no less than £3,000,000, or whose obligations are guaranteed by a person with an income or assets of such amount.
 






Justice

Dangerous Idiot
Jun 21, 2012
19,051
Born In Shoreham
Everyone I know seems to be skint these days, invoices are taking longer to be paid essential work only seems to be the priority of my jobs lately.
A build project has been annoyingly delayed or maybe won’t happen now which I was banking on starting soon. I give a reasonable price for work and I can see them wince where as this wouldn’t of happened before. Bad times ahead.
 






Weststander

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Aug 25, 2011
64,651
Withdean area
I think by many people's standards our household would be well off but our outgoings are 3.5k a month, we are not frivolous don't take many holidays and live modestly.

It seems we have to work incredibly hard to live what seems like a fairly ordinary lifestyle compared to what my parents did. I strongly believe that we are much, much worse off on an income to outgoings ratio to a family 25 years ago.

I think it southern England house prices. Anecdotally individual homes round here are 6 or 7 times their 1995 value. Bricks and mortar are the same here as elsewhere, so essentially it’s in land values. Folk moving up market or starting out, on huge mortgages, are facing 25 years of repayments on astronomic land values compared to any time past.
 
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Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
50,249
Goldstone
……should be rephrased perhaps to;
When you go to measuring my success
Don't count my money count my time.

Time rich is biggest asset.

Marty and Doc win
 


razer

Well-known member
Mar 10, 2019
764
Ormskirk, Lancashire
As I've got older I've realised it's not about how much money you have but how little you can spend, while still being comfortable and happy. Anything I buy I research beforehand and make sure I get a quality product at a value price, often second hand. I then find I want what I have, rather than have what I want (a good happiness barometer). The amount i see other people spend on willy nilly, without thought, then don't use, throw away or resell for peanuts is ridiculous. Not answered your question though.

So, in essence, you're a minge. :giggle:
 




dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,199
if the figures are to be believed the increase of income required from 2022 to 2023 is frightening

According to the Rowntree Organisation in 2022 A single person needs to earn £25,500 a year to reach a minimum acceptable standard of living in April 2022. A couple with two children needs to earn £43,400 between them.

while in 2023 Project Finance worry free say a total household income of £80,000 puts you in a great position to cover your expenses, save some money for a rainy day and retirement, and have a little left over for some leisure expenses!

Credit Suisse in 2021 said there are approximately 685,500 Britons in the richest 1%, with a total wealth of £2.8 Trillion
As a comparison, 48 million Britons, 70 per cent of the population, have a total wealth of £2.4 billion
Your billions and trillions are a bit askew. Yes, the rich 1% have £2.8 trillion or £4m each on average. But the 70% have £2.4 trillion according to Credit Suisse, not billion. £2.4 billion among 48 million would be net £50 per head over 70% of the population. £50,000 per head is the true figures, and that's the average per man, woman and child.
 


dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
52,865
Burgess Hill
The FCA handbook deems an individual as an Ultra High Net Work Individual when;

high net worth mortgage customer​

  1. a customer with an annual net income of no less than £300,000 or net assets of no less than £3,000,000, or whose obligations are guaranteed by a person with an income or assets of such amount.
That's just a UHNW definition for the purposes of mortgage regulation though isn't it ? (in turn meaning some of the usual criteria can be ignored when considering applications). Most banks and WMs have their own UHNW (vs HNW and affluent) definitions.
 


nicko31

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2010
17,675
Gods country fortnightly
i like Patten so was expecting to find good verification. i cant, only news repeating the claim. closest can find is proportion of income share for lowest 20% is lower in UK. 20% is unusal comparison.
Importing food will be £7B more outside the EU. Stick that on the side of ya poxy red bus.

As for Poland, they do have relatively high welfare for the lowest paid so this does distort things a bit.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,993
The Fatherland
I've always considered 'being rich' as being able to go around a supermarket without worrying how much the total bill will be and whether to economise.
Being rich is being able to do this in Waitrose.
 




Bakero

Languidly clinical
Oct 9, 2010
13,848
Almería
The World Bank indices that shows Poland as having a lower poverty rate than the UK, with greater poverty in Spain and Italy. With almost zero poverty in Morocco, China, Ukraine, Belarus and Algeria.

China's figures are the ones that a little questionable. The economic miracle is there for everyone to see and undoubtedly 100s of millions have been lifted out of poverty. However, miracle performed, they're now a higher income country but their poverty line is still artificially low.

Not surprised that Spain and Italy's rates are slightly higher than the UKs, nor that the UK's is higher than Poland's. Britain is a crushingly expensive place to live for those on a low wage. Spain is cheaper for most things but incomes are lower and unemployment is very high in some regions.
 


Butch Willykins

Well-known member
Jun 17, 2011
2,535
Shoreham-by-Sea
If I did what I do now in the 80's / 90's, I'm pretty sure I'd have kids in private school and have a detached 5 bedroom house with a huge garden and a tennis court, yet I still live in modest 3-bed semi with kids in state school and can't really see how that is going to change any time soon. I am definitely getting poorer, not richer.

This! And all on one income too. Very few of my mates had two working parents in the 80’s / 90’s.
 


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