[Albion] What is plan B?

[Seagull58]

This is your opportunity to advise Roberto where he's going wrong.

 

[GJN1]

I think Plan B is actually Plan A but we call it Plan B to make it look like we have a Plan B when Plan A fails but, in reality, all Plan B is is Plan A with a different name.

 

[RandyWanger]

Plan A seems to be slow buildup play, lots of passing and wait for the perfect scoring opportunity or walk the ball in the net.
Plan A should be how we used to play, quicker with lots of shots!
But we should get a decent set-piece coach immediately as with quicker play we will 'win' more decisions.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Unless I am reading it wrong (and by that I'm assuming this is a dig at those who dare criticise RDZ's stubborn flogging of a dead horse), then this is a stupid thread.

He is the one paid millions to come up with the tactics. And if he can't think of anything new himself, he can turn to the army of minnions he brought with him, for some ideas.

 

[Seagull58]

Unless I am reading it wrong (and by that I'm assuming this is a dig at those who dare criticise RDZ's stubborn flogging of a dead horse), then this is a stupid thread.

He is the one paid millions to come up with the tactics. And if he can't think of anything new himself, he can turn to the army of minnions he brought with him, for some ideas.

That is not how I meant it to be. There is lots of discussion about RDZ not having a plan B so I'm asking the NSC members their opinion on what it should be. It's not a dig. What is plan B?

Edit; or how should plan A change?

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Play quicker is the closest option to what I think.

It's not a case of ripping up everything we're doing and starting again. But there's so many situations where we take a risk to beat a press, then slow the play down and the opposition have become organised.

The biggest single thing we could do, is to put out our fastest wingers, get the ball out to them and coach them not to turn back Don't recycle at any point. Get to the line ASAP and get it across. Strikers get in there. All this should earn us more free kicks and corners, which we need to completely remodel. Enciso and Barco are taking. It's a bit old school and I accept a risk of having possession turned over, but that's happening anyway with all the tippy tappy

 

[southstandandy]

For plan B see Plan A

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Unless I am reading it wrong (and by that I'm assuming this is a dig at those who dare criticise RDZ's stubborn flogging of a dead horse), then this is a stupid thread.

He is the one paid millions to come up with the tactics. And if he can't think of anything new himself, he can turn to the army of minnions he brought with him, for some ideas.

What tactics Brighton should be playing with a stupid discussion on a Brighton messageboard?

 

[Farehamseagull]

The bigger and more important question is what is his plan A? We haven’t played with an identity or style for quite a while now.

 

[Seagull58]

Play quicker is the closest option to what I think.

It's not a case of ripping up everything we're doing and starting again. But there's so many situations where we take a risk to beat a press, then slow the play down and the opposition have become organised.

The biggest single thing we could do, is to put out our fastest wingers, get the ball out to them and coach them not to turn back Don't recycle at any point. Get to the line ASAP and get it across. Strikers get in there. All this should earn us more free kicks and corners, which we need to completely remodel. Enciso and Barco are taking. It's a bit old school and I accept a risk of having possession turned over, but that's happening anyway with all the tippy tappy

That's more or less what I think, except imo the wingers have to turn back sometimes and recycle.
It should be his plan A and, I think, would be, more or less, if Mitoma and March were playing.

 

[The Fits]

The De Zerbi way, like quite a few managers, is very rigid. Players are coached rigorously to move into set positions. The flexibility given to the players is in who you pass too, and when you try and beat the block.
So it's effectively rondos all over the pitch with the onus on one player to make the right decision.
When you're confident and things are going well this works.
Plan B would be to a second setting that is less risky and less reliant on the tight passing. This would be something that the players and/or staff can trigger. Most suitably when its obvious the passing at the back isn't working. There's been countless times recently when the defenders are being pushed further and further back. Panicking. Giving the ball back to the opposition etc.
At this point the onus needs to shift from possession to territory. IE play higher up the pitch.
What we don't have this season is that kind of approach or that out-ball. Largely down to the wingers. But we aren't seeing the Colwill/Dunk through balls, or the kind of goal Steele set up for Mitoma. That's because we are getting pushed really deep and our players lack confidence on the ball.
I don't exactly know how Plan B would look. But at it's crudest it would be playing higher, pushing players out wide, playing more balls forwards. Less possession but likely more advanced territorially.
Essentially it would be a return to a more traditional style football. Probably not for the football hipsters, but likely more effective in our current stink.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Out of possession, I think we're playing the wrong players, particularly in Centre Mid.

I actually love the willingness to throw players forward and that the full backs are empowered to join the attack, but I don't see what the plan is for when we get turned over. Gross and Gilmour are never going to provide decent cover. To me, both should be competing for one more attacking spot (where we've seen Lallana and Moder feature).

What we need to play this way and what we don't have is a CM with lungs the size of Ostrich eggs. We need two. A double pivot, both prepared to sit while the full backs bomb on and fill those gaps.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

That is not how I meant it to be. There is lots of discussion about RDZ not having a plan B so I'm asking the NSC members their opinion on what it should be. It's not a dig. What is plan B?

Edit; or how should plan A change?

Fair enough.

 

[Seagull58]

The bigger and more important question is what is his plan A? We haven’t played with an identity or style for quite a while now.

I think we have. We have played out from the back every time (and regularly been dispossessed). Our front men have dropped short to receive the ball (and been fouled continually without punishment). We have moved the ball to the wings and recycled back to the CBs (rinse and repeat).We have definitely played with a clear style

 

[Flounce]

De Zerbi has said very recently that the style of play will NEVER change hasn’t he? In which case we need a new manager, harsh but fair I think if we don’t buy the quality of player his only plan requires.

An occasional long ball rather than fannying about at the back and all the way up the pitch is as close as we get to plan B I think

 

[Seagull58]

Out of possession, I think we're playing the wrong players, particularly in Centre Mid.

I actually love the willingness to throw players forward and that the full backs are empowered to join the attack, but I don't see what the plan is for when we get turned over. Gross and Gilmour are never going to provide decent cover. To me, both should be competing for one more attacking spot (where we've seen Lallana and Moder feature).

What we need to play this way and what we don't have is a CM with lungs the size of Ostrich eggs. We need two. A double pivot, both prepared to sit while the full backs bomb on and fill those gaps.

So, firstly, we need Rice and Caicedo and the job's a good 'un.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

The De Zerbi way, like quite a few managers, is very rigid. Players are coached rigorously to move into set positions. The flexibility given to the players is in who you pass too, and when you try and beat the block.
So it's effectively rondos all over the pitch with the onus on one player to make the right decision.
When you're confident and things are going well this works.
Plan B would be to a second setting that is less risky and less reliant on the tight passing. This would be something that the players and/or staff can trigger. Most suitably when its obvious the passing at the back isn't working. There's been countless times recently when the defenders are being pushed further and further back. Panicking. Giving the ball back to the opposition etc.
At this point the onus needs to shift from possession to territory. IE play higher up the pitch.
What we don't have this season is that kind of approach or that out-ball. Largely down to the wingers. But we aren't seeing the Colwill/Dunk through balls, or the kind of goal Steele set up for Mitoma. That's because we are getting pushed really deep and our players lack confidence on the ball.
I don't exactly know how Plan B would look. But at it's crudest it would be playing higher, pushing players out wide, playing more balls forwards. Less possession but likely more advanced territorially.
Essentially it would be a return to a more traditional style football. Probably not for the football hipsters, but likely more effective in our current stink.

The way I think of it, just imagine we had a Muzza in the team, so that when we're starting to lose control of the back 4 rondo, we could knock it, bypass the press and get ourselves up the pitch. We would be so much harder to play against.

We did something similar when we won at Anfield during lockdown. Stuck Burn on at left wing, whenever the press was too intense, bang it out to the left touchline and win the header.

The the presence of a realistic outball would seriously reduce the effectiveness of an opponents high press.

 

[sparkie]

Isn't the goto advice "Get it forward" ?

 

[raymondo]

The way I think of it, just imagine we had a Muzza in the team, so that when we're starting to lose control of the back 4 rondo, we could knock it, bypass the press and get ourselves up the pitch. We would be so much harder to play against.

We did something similar when we won at Anfield during lockdown. Stuck Burn on at left wing, whenever the press was too intense, bang it out to the left touchline and win the header.

The the presence of a realistic outball would seriously reduce the effectiveness of an opponents high press.

Agreed, but without Mitoma and March (or even Estupinan, Hinshelwood) it's impossible to the wide areas (Adingra doesn't have that skill enough IMO).

It's a shame that Welbeck, Ferguson (when fit) don't seem to have the control, or the oppos have figured out how to clatter them without giving free kicks... it's become the norm.
Muzza was VERY good at collapsing in a heap at the right time - then again he was focused on that, rather than which pattern wall pass he had to play next.

 

[Rdodge30]

Plan B for me would be different in different circumstances

In Roma Plan B would be to leave some defenders back defending when we are behind 2-0