What Happened to my Thread?

[clapham_gull]

Comedians should try to be funny before they decide to get political. No fucker is going to tell me what is or is not funny or what or what I cant make jokes about.

If you dont like it its a matter of taste, breeding and yes moral veiw point. But to try to prevent it because it "offends" you has absolutley no moral basis.
If someone offends you put them on ignore, improve your time on NSC by putting a limit on your own freedom instead of trying to impose a limit on everybody else.

Can't think of any "political" comedians anymore. Even the live ones are very, very mainstream these days. The political ones from the past have gone very daytime TV - anyone remember Jo Brands old material ?

It seems to be the trend. I blame New Labour.

 

[London Irish]

New Labour has confused a lot of people, the moral certainties of Thacherism were easier to poke fun at.

There is Mark Thomas who gets on TV a lot, but yes, not sure you can call him a comedian anymore.

Rob Newman is superb but doesn't seem to want to do TV any more.

Rory Bremner is clever but comes across as a bit smug rather than idealistic.

There must be more - I don't follow the stand-up circuit as much as would like.

The ones I look forward to now make South Park, Matt Stone and Trey Parker are not conventionally political but the later episodes now seem full of politics.

There is one coming up called Passion of the Jew, where they have real go at Mel Gibson for stirring up anti-semitism (Stone is a Jew, which I should probably have mentioned in that earlier post I made).

 

[SussexSpur]

New Labour has confused a lot of people, the moral certainties of Thacherism were easier to poke fun at.

There is Mark Thomas who gets on TV a lot, but yes, not sure you can call him a comedian anymore.

Rob Newman is superb but doesn't seem to want to do TV any more.

Rory Bremner is clever but comes across as a bit smug rather than idealistic.

There must be more - I don't follow the stand-up circuit as much as would like.

The ones I look forward to now make South Park, Matt Stone and Trey Parker are not conventionally political but the later episodes now seem full of politics.

There is one coming up called Passion of the Jew, where they have real go at Mel Gibson for stirring up anti-semitism (Stone is a Jew, which I should probably have mentioned in that earlier post I made).

And then there's Radio 4's 6.30pm slot. . .

Jeremy Hardy, Linda Smith, Mark Steel, Marcus Brigstocke - a very smart, politically-tuned-in, left-of-centre lot. . . but so smug with it, I find it hard to stay listening to the end of a "witty-by-my-gosh-don't-they-just-know-it" punchline. . .

Quick game of Mornington Crescent anyone?

 

[clapham_gull]

Forgot about Mark Thomas.. very, very funny.. (and often see him in Sainsburys)

Has been doing a bit of stand up, went to see him this year.

I think the blokes a genius.

 

[Hunting 784561]

I think some of you on here have missed a wider point, which is that many Lefties demand unquestioning tolerance and goodwill from other human beings, but have something of blind spot themselves with regards to the Jewish race, mainly because of the Palestinian situation and Jewish US support of Israel.

It is a hanging offence (sic) to criticise any poor oppressed minority on this planet, however *please feel free* to stick the (jack) boot in on the Jewish race.

.....which might go some way to explaining the normally highly judgemental London Irish's acceptance of insensitive crass Auswitch jibes.

 

[SussexSpur]

I think some of you on here have missed a wider point, which is that many Lefties demand unquestioning tolerance and goodwill from other human beings, but have something of blind spot themselves with regards to the Jewish race, mainly because of the Palestinian situation and Jewish US support of Israel.

It is a hanging offence (sic) to criticise any poor oppressed minority on this planet, however *please feel free* to stick the (jack) boot in on the Jewish race.

.....which might go some way to explaining the normally highly judgemental London Irish's acceptance of insensitive crass Auswitch jibes.

Agree. . . up to a point, Lord Copper, anyway.
But would extend that to how easy it is to make the kind of easy jibes against Christianity which wouldn't be tolerated against other religions without at least an instinctive shudder, a shake of the head and an "ooh, are you sure you should be saying that?". . .
As a lapsed, er, Anglican (doesn't have quite the same sound as lapsed Catholic), recognise there is plenty to mock in the high-minded yet low-living hypocrisy of some in the established Church - yet feel that many fundamentally-decent people have to apologise for their sincerely-held religious beliefs.
Sorry to hearken to the subject of my last post, but found myself irritated by a Jeremy Hardy monologue on Radio 4 the other night, half of which was spent indulging every lazy jibe at Christian priests (they're all gay/they're all hypocrites/they're all boring/they're all gay, again), the other half of which was mocking anyone who questions certain tenets of Islam as card-carrying BNP skinheads. . .
Part of me felt sorry to be quite so annoyed in reaction to someone whose politics, in generality, I would tend towards much sooner than much right of centre. But someone who I often find veering into disingenuous and ultimately alienating territory, all in the purpose of making jokes.
And even worse - not very funny jokes, at that.

Sorry. Rambling rant over.
Will no doubt edit it as I give it more thought. Or not.

 

[London Irish]

.....which might go some way to explaining the normally highly judgemental London Irish's acceptance of insensitive crass Auswitch jibes.

Another one who probably thinks Chris Morris is a peadophile lover and Matt Stone is an anti-semite. Yes, I am highly judgmental towards smear artists like yourself.

 

[SussexSpur]

Another one who probably thinks Chris Morris is a peadophile lover

He's not?

Honestly. . .

"It's just another form of racism". . .

(Sorry - was re-watching Brass Eye video the other day and, no matter how many times the episodes have been drilled into the brain, still find myself shaking my head in wonder at some of the, well, outrages - but hilarity - and cleverness. Too easy to go into simple quote mode - but, oh, so tempting too.)
Certainly a place for dubious taste in this world. Just depends, I suppose, on the entirely subjective emotions of every individual - and who really can define what one person finds funny and another doesn't, let alone funny enough to either overwhelm a subject matter or indeed subtly comment upon it?

Can offer no answer other than to fall back on another quote, from a Have I Got News For You episode when Paul Merton momentarily seemed to lose control of the joke - then triumphantly pulled the comedic rabbit of the hat (or, er, something like that. . .)
After Merton attempted to explain why repeated use of an offensive term helped take the sting out of it, Angus Deayton interjected by saying: "Er, yes. . . it's always good to analyse what you're doing, isn't it?"
(Brief silence as Paul Merton uncharacteristically stutters, before)
"Well, yes. . . if you're a brain surgeon, that is. . .
Don't analyse what you're doing, for God's sake - it'll come out as `reading out loud'. . ."

Joke redeemed, laughs guaranteed.
Simple, this comedy lark, innit...

 

[London Irish]

Sorry to hearken to the subject of my last post, but found myself irritated by a Jeremy Hardy monologue on Radio 4 the other night, half of which was spent indulging every lazy jibe at Christian priests (they're all gay/they're all hypocrites/they're all boring/they're all gay, again), the other half of which was mocking anyone who questions certain tenets of Islam as card-carrying BNP skinheads. . .

But you've hit the nail on the head here, SussexSpur.

What Hardy is saying is that you can't treat Christianity and Muslim "the same" in today's Britain. He is saying that comedians have a moral duty to poke fun at the powerful but protect the vulnerable.

Christianity is the established religion of the country. Still by a huge margin the majority religion of this country, its practitioners are in a powerful position in this land and do not suffer discrimination for their faith.

Muslims, however, have a little bit harder time of it. Not only the racism thay have to put up with because of the colour of their skin, but now a concerted smear campaign to link their faith to "terrorism". The Irish community had to go through this 20/30 years ago so we know what the Muslims may have to face if this Islamophobia continues to gather pace.

Socially-conscious comedians like the brilliant Jeremy Hardy and Mark Thomas are aware of this and will tailor their material accordingly.

I'm not a practising Catholic but to borrow a phrase from Dermot O'Leary, I am "ethnically" Catholic, that's the community I grew up in.

Should I get that worked up by what goes in Lewes, the anti-popery stuff. Some Catholics do, but I don't. There is no concerted discrimation campaign against Catholics any more in this country, that stuff died out a very long time ago. So there is no need to fear this playful re-enactment of anti-Catholic bigotry.

But what if some of those banners in Lewes turned from being anti-Catholic to anti-Muslim or anti-gypsy? We would then have a big problem, because such stuff could fan the flames of an already existing campaign of hatred and bigotry against these vulnerable religious and ethnic groups.

Fair play to Jeremy Hardy. Mark Steel and Linda Smith, not quite in his class I feel.

 

[SussexSpur]

But you've hit the nail on the head here, SussexSpur.

What Hardy is saying is that you can't treat Christianity and Muslim "the same" in today's Britain. He is saying that comedians have a moral duty to poke fun at the powerful but protect the vulnerable.

Christianity is the established religion of the country. Still by a huge margin the majority religion of this country, its practitioners are in a powerful position in this land and do not suffer discrimination for their faith.

Muslims, however, have a little bit harder time of it. Not only the racism thay have to put up with because of the colour of their skin, but now a concerted smear campaign to link their faith to "terrorism". The Irish community had to go through this 20/30 years ago so we know what the Muslims may have to face if this Islamophobia continues to gather pace.

Socially-conscious comedians like the brilliant Jeremy Hardy and Mark Thomas are aware of this and will tailor their material accordingly.

I'm not a practising Catholic but to borrow a phrase from Dermot O'Leary, I am "ethnically" Catholic, that's the community I grew up in.

Should I get that worked up by what goes in Lewes, the anti-popery stuff. Some Catholics do, but I don't. There is no concerted discrimation campaign against Catholics any more in this country, that stuff died out a very long time ago. So there is no need to fear this playful re-enactment of anti-Catholic bigotry.

But what if some of those banners in Lewes turned from being anti-Catholic to anti-Muslim or anti-gypsy? We would then have a big problem, because such stuff could fan the flames of an already existing campaign of hatred and bigotry against these vulnerable religious and ethnic groups.

Fair play to Jeremy Hardy. Mark Steel and Linda Smith, not quite in his class I feel.

No, I do agree with a lot of what you say there (other than the fact I try, oh how I try, but I just don't find that unholy trio funny, in a basic "laughing" sense rather than a "nod-the-head-in-agreement" way).
And I really didn't intend to try to compare mocking of established, WASP-ish hierarchies with the prejudice - all the more deeply felt for its subtlety - and antagonism suffered by those who fall into those dreaded "other" groupings.

But just wanted to make the point, as an avowed agnostic (I, er, think) that plenty of Christians also suffer from a certain isolation, by the common perception that all must be happy-clappy, fundamentalist-right-wing, frankly, borderline (or not-so-borderline) lunatics - Republicans, in fact, you might say.
And indeed, I think such an assumption only plays into the hands of the more swivel-eyed sectors of the church, as seen in George W's regime. (I mean, what did Tony Blair's advisors try most desperately, bemusingly, to deny - the allegation he and Bush prayed together. My, how scandalous. Or at least, that's how disturbing a certain type of praying - ie. the Bush kind - can easily strike us as being.)

My my, I seem to be tying myself up in rhetorical knots here more than I'd want to be on a Friday night. With a weekend at work ahead.

The fun here never, er, starts. . .

 

[SussexSpur]

As an aside, though, did meet Mark Steel once.
While covering a Crystal Palace benefit do, at the height (or trough) of the Mark Goldberg days.
Doing his bit to keep the club alive.
Seemed a nice guy.

 

[clapham_gull]

But you have to be careful in poking fun at a dominate religion in a country, whoever "holds the power".

Weren't Jews percieved as being a "dominate religion" in pre war Germany in and looked what happened there ?

My mind is often changed. I was starting to back the French stance on banning religious garments in schools then I went into Sainsburys today.

There is a presumably muslim girl behind the checkout wearing some black material around her head (but not covering her face)

Its made by and covered with Calvin Klein logos. If thats not a mixed message I don't know what is.

 

[clapham_gull]

Whose the comedian/radio presenter who used to do channel five football programme with the ex-page three girl ? Palace Fan, thinks he's on radio five live now.

Went to a benefit for a dyslexic kid at the Bedford Pub in Balham (very famous comedy venue) a few years ago.

He was the very first act.

He came on with a paint set, looked blank at at the crowd and set "Shit, they told me he was artistic"

It brought the house down...

 

[London Irish]

Its made by and covered with Calvin Klein logos. If thats not a mixed message I don't know what is.

I would be very pleased to see that, I would take that as a sign of a subtle form of rebellion, or at least a step towards integration. Good news surely.

Your example of Jews in pre-war Germany is quite interesting. Their parallel in today's Britain? It has to be Islam. If you look at Fascist publications, the BNP are already spewing out stuff about how they've "taken over" and "hold the power" in certain towns in the north of England.

 

[Wozza]

Whose the comedian/radio presenter who used to do channel five football programme with the ex-page three girl ? Palace Fan, thinks he's on radio five live now.

Kevin Day?

Other comedians who are Palace fans: Eddie Izzard, Roy Hudd, Rob Newman, Jo Brand, Sean Hughes, Roger de Courcey and Nookie.

But then Crystal Palace is South London's leading comedy club, so what do you expect?

Went to a benefit for a dyslexic kid at the Bedford Pub in Balham (very famous comedy venue) a few years ago.

My local innit.