What do people think about hoolie films/books?

[Tooting Gull]

This was the subject of an office discussion today, prompted by me as I've been told a bit about another film being filmed this month called 'Rise of the Foot Soldier', which is a sort of true-story biopic about Carlton Breach. Apparently he was an ICF 'top boy' in the 80s, has also written a book called 'Muscle', and it's mainly about Millwall v West Ham violence at that time.

If you google the film name, as I did today, you'll find chat sites where current fans are being paid to be in this film 'beating people up'.

Obviously there have been several films (eg Green Street, Football Factory) and many books. But what purpose do they serve? Is it entertainment, and do films almost by definition glamorise it?

Is it meant to allow those involved to relive it all - and if so can this be a good idea? Will it attract a whole new generation of hoolies? Those punting it out (publishers, producers) always claim they aren't being irresponsible, but there's sometimes big money involved.

On the other hand, any of us who are 35 plus grew up with this stuff going on. You might not have been involved but if you went to matches, especially away, it was always there in the background. Or, indeed, the foreground. So maybe it is an important social history record. Or a good story.

What say you all?

 

[Dave the OAP]

Having witnesseed some very unpleassant scenes ( millwall home in 1977 - Surgical masks stuff) amongst others, I find it very strange glorifying something that was a serious problem that led to deaths.

I suppose the "authors" see it similar to those old soldiers who write their war memoirs.

There is a book about written by one of the policement at Hillsborough that didnt sell very well, but showed an insight into the police attitudes at the time to football fans in general, and liverpool fans specifically...

 

[ali jenkins]

I love Green Street and Football factory, although ive bever wanted to travel to an away game and kick f*** out of another fan.

Ive also read a book about hoolies (cant remember the name) and that was quite a decent read.

I dont see anything diffrent from these films that show people running around shooting each other and things like that.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I think it is shit, and don't buy into it at all.

 

[Cian]

I've got Green Street here. I've never watched it. Should I?

 

[ali jenkins]

I've got Green Street here. I've never watched it. Should I?

Definatly.

Get the lads round with a few beers aswell.

 

[Trotster]

I quite enjoy them and own quite a few - ID in particula i enjoy - the trilogy of books starting with 'England, my England' is particually good. I also have a few books with a deeper psychological profile of football hooligans, all of which make a very good read. I certinaly dont condone the violence however it does put a different spin and insite into they way people view a football game and what it means to different people in society.

 

[Knightsworld]

I quite enjoy them and own quite a few - ID in particula i enjoy - the trilogy of books starting with 'England, my England' is particually good. I also have a few books with a deeper psychological profile of football hooligans, all of which make a very good read. I certinaly dont condone the violence however it does put a different spin and insite into they way people view a football game and what it means to different people in society.

I think ID is on Bravo tonight 10pm

 

[Don Tmatter]

Couldn't take Green Street seriously after seeing the leader of the ICF played by the same guy who played the gay school boy in 'Queer as Folk'.Football Factory vastly superior but read the book first.

 

[B.M.F]

The Doug and Eddie Brimson books are really good and an itneresting read as it gives a view from the inside by someone who is against their own past. It covers all sorts of things during the books linked to the violence.
The films are good entertainment but I take them with a pinch of salts.
Teargas and Tantrums is not a bad documentary.
I studied Sociology and used certain studies as one of my main pieces of work using people luike William Footwhite amongst others including Some American bloke ( Among the thugs I think ) that did a participant observation study on hooligans from an american perspective.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Most of it is Walter Mitty shite, people that want to make out they were there when they were actually pissing down their legs and hiding in the toilets. There is no doubt that there were some very organised gangs of people that were into the violence, but most of the rest were chavs, but a couple of decades early. "Come on then, let's have it" before doing one over the nearest fence and leaving the slow ones to get caned. Very sad people who could find no other way of confirming to others that they were born with male chromosomes - and the "reflected glory" that some seem to gain from loose associations and implications of involvement is pathetic. The hoolie film and book market caters for those who want to pretend that they could hack serious violence, to pretend that they are part of an extreme violence culture, but in reality have their own page on Wikipedia under "loose and flapping sphincter" when threatened by an old lady with a heavy handbag.

Wankers.

 

[Trotster]

The Doug and Eddie Brimson books are really good and an itneresting read as it gives a view from the inside by someone who is against their own past. It covers all sorts of things during the books linked to the violence.
The films are good entertainment but I take them with a pinch of salts.
Teargas and Tantrums is not a bad documentary.
I studied Sociology and used certain studies as one of my main pieces of work using people luike William Footwhite amongst others including Some American bloke ( Among the thugs I think ) that did a participant observation study on hooligans from an american perspective.

I couldnt thing of the authors names of the trilogy but you are right - its Doug and Eddie Brimson - Good read

 

[Simster]

There's clearly a market for them, so its all market forces.

But it's a shame - because some of us remember it being pretty f***ing far from funny most of the time.

 

[Skaville]

I used to like them when I was young and impressionable. The best I ever saw was The Firm, largely because Gary Oldman was incredibly good and it was a terrific BBC Production (a Screen 2 think).

Now I am older and wiser I think they are pretty sad. I did watch Green Street after being told good things about it, but it was an utter pile of shite. Quite why you would cast an American to play West Ham's top boy is beyond me and the plot was ridiculous.

Hooliganism seems to have been on the verge of disappearing altogether at the turn of the decade. I hope these films are not contributing to a hooliganism revival.

 

[Questions]

Most of it is Walter Mitty shite, people that want to make out they were there when they were actually pissing down their legs and hiding in the toilets. There is no doubt that there were some very organised gangs of people that were into the violence, but most of the rest were chavs, but a couple of decades early. "Come on then, let's have it" before doing one over the nearest fence and leaving the slow ones to get caned. Very sad people who could find no other way of confirming to others that they were born with male chromosomes - and the "reflected glory" that some seem to gain from loose associations and implications of involvement is pathetic. The hoolie film and book market caters for those who want to pretend that they could hack serious violence, to pretend that they are part of an extreme violence culture, but in reality have their own page on Wikipedia under "loose and flapping sphincter" when threatened by an old lady with a heavy handbag.

Wankers.

Spot on

 

[butchy]

the brimson brothers are good i think, good honest accounts from football fans who are often highlighting problems with the game that are not always directly associated with hooliganism but matters that are not being addressed by the FA. teargas and ticket touts is especially good i think.....other than that there was a book written a while ago called steaming in which was a humerous account of following footy in the 80's.

 

[graz126]

football factory, headhunters and england away are 3 excellent books from john king. they follow on in that order. i would say headhunters is my favorate book of all time.
also read a great book about tranmere fans but forgot the author and name of book. it may have been awaydays.
the brimson bros books are worth a read with their very informative and intresting thoughts. although i do prefer the other books as they have great storylines.
also read steaming in, didnt really get on too well with that book. especially the bit where leatherhead gave brighton a good seeing to in the fa cup, as the book says.

 

[butchy]

football factory, headhunters and england away are 3 excellent books from john king. they follow on in that order. i would say headhunters is my favorate book of all time.
also read a great book about tranmere fans but forgot the author and name of book. it may have been awaydays.
the brimson bros books are worth a read with their very informative and intresting thoughts. although i do prefer the other books as they have great storylines.
also read steaming in, didnt really get on too well with that book. especially the bit where leatherhead gave brighton a good seeing to in the fa cup, as the book says.

haha, yeh agree with the point about steaming in-not too praiseworthy of us being able to hold our ground against the mighty leatherhead!

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Written by lame old men desperately trying to regain some of their long lost credibility by claiming they were once the hard men of their respective towns.

Men who spent their Saturday afternoons in the 1970s and 80s pathetically attempting to prove their masculinity against similarly singular brain celled individuals, when despite all the bragging, they probably ran home to their wives after the matches and went "yes dear, of course I'll put those shelves up, and are we going to see your mother tomorrow?"

Apart from anything else, I find these books spectacularly boring. Who cares about a bunch of fat, middle aged skinheads beating each other up? If you want to do it, guys, fine, just go to a quiet field, kick the crap of each other to try desperately to raise your testosterone levels to what they were twenty years ago, then trundle off home to watch Strictly Come Dancing, and don't inflict your dull war stories on the rest of us.

 

[smudge]

Football Factory was decent acting, but all it did was give the chavs a few new catchphrases. I mean, I never heard any of the spotty little c***s in Brighton use phrases like "jog on" or "you muggy little c**t" before that movie.

Green Street was utter shite & I am in total amazement that anyone takes it seriiously. THE WORST cockney accent since Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins!

I'm mid 40's so lived through all of that & most of it was just running around the streets without much actual fighting. A lot of heavy drinking & a lot of bravado though.

The odd real toe to toe here & there though. Thornton Heath, East Croydon & Norwood Jct mainly. Now why is that I wonder?