Well this is gonna start a binfest...

[Skint Gull]

... but rightly so I think. If people were against the US armend forces before they definitely will be now.

Warning this is not something everybody is going to want to see.

BBC News - WikiLeaks posts 'killing' video

WikiLeaks

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Throw enough mud and some will stick.

Nice work

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Throw enough mud and some will stick.

Nice work

Hmmm - Reuters vs US accounts - I know who I'm more likely to trust. The US have a shoot now and ask questions later policy and this film shows that SOME of the US army are just cold blooded murderers.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Does a forum about a football team need threads about these subjects? Just throwing that out there.

 

[auschr]

shocking video

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Did anyone imagine that a war in a city, fought from the air, would be any different?

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Hmmm - Reuters vs US accounts - I know who I'm more likely to trust. The US have a shoot now and ask questions later policy and this film shows that SOME of the US army are just cold blooded murderers.

on the morning of July 12th 2007, two Apache helicopters using 30mm cannon fire killed about a dozen people in a suburb of New Baghdad

Two children were also wounded

Although some of the men appear to have been armed, the behaviour of nearly everyone was relaxed

The US military initially claimed that all the dead were "anti Iraqi forces" or "insurgents"

The stories of most of those who were killed are unknown, But amongst the dead were two reuters news employees, Saeed Chmagh and Namir Noor-Eldeen.

Shocking video, but made me wonder (if they were) why ordinary Iraqis would be carrying weapons while standing about in the street, especially at a time when US forces were trying to combat the problem of insurgents and attacks being carried out on their troops.

Cold blooded murderers or professional soldiers doing what they were trained to do in that situation? they got authorisation first to attack firstly the group, then the vehicle, maybe the person authorising the attack should get more information before deciding (if possible) such as the video streamed live to them?

Or better still, having some way of issuing instructions / warnings to the ground via speakers rather than firing on that vehicle? - it wasn't during battles but the peace keeping process afterwards so couldn't they have modified their helicopters for this purpose?

 

[Nibble]

I guess the moral is donty stroll around an MZ with anything that could be construed to be a weapon and not expect to get fired upon. Also, journalists do sneak themselves into areas of high risk and they admit they do it so frankly own bloody fault.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Nice with hindsight and a labelled video. Granted, the attitude of the US personnel involved stinks, the treatment of the injured stinks and the remote application of the Rules of Engagement is somewhat dodgy, but when a bloke crouches behind cover and hoists something up to his shoulder, your sphincter is going to twitch.

 

[Husty]

"Well it's their fault for bringing their kids into a battle," says a voice.

Idiots

 

[Acker79]

but made me wonder (if they were) why ordinary Iraqis would be carrying weapons while standing about in the street, especially at a time when US forces were trying to combat the problem of insurgents and attacks being carried out on their troops.

These people deal with a daily threat of said insurgents, perhaps they want to be able to protect themselves from a real threat. Perhaps they just like the ability to own a gun, which I presume was not permitted under saddam (americans like to own guns, some like to attend presidential speeches with their guns, and they're not under any threat of civil war or insurgents etc.)

 

[Napper]

get off their backs, they freed the people from a murderous dictator and the area is also now more stable. Some of you listen to much to the swampys.

People die in wars = Fact

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

get off their backs, they freed the people from a murderous dictator and the area is also now more stable. Some of you listen to much to the swampys.

People die in wars = Fact

You are 100% correct Dougal, people do die in wars and it is very hard, in the fog of war, to sometimes work out who is friend and who is foe.

However, given the technology available to them to better identify a camera from an AK47 it would appear, at times, the Americans focus more on the engagement rather than the intelligence. There was no immediate risk to life here, from an Amercian forces perspective?

 

[glasfryn]

Nice with hindsight and a labelled video. Granted, the attitude of the US personnel involved stinks, the treatment of the injured stinks and the remote application of the Rules of Engagement is somewhat dodgy, but when a bloke crouches behind cover and hoists something up to his shoulder, your sphincter is going to twitch.

especially if you have been watching to many "Star Wars" films
put it simply cold blooded murder
what else would you expect from yanks who are engaging in war by remote control

they have killed some of our soldiers in exactly the same way

 

[westsussexseagulls]

The link doesnt work today strangely!

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

The Wikileaks link still works. If you go to Collateral Murder you can see the video and photos as well. It's all well and good holding the high ground, but remember that the opposition does not play by any rules at all - despite Iraq being signed up to various conventions, they are unenforceable.

The Yanks were waaaay too gung-ho in this clip, but then again they were used to having very mobile guerillas taking pot shots at them using effective weaponry. An RPG is a wonderful tool to use in a built up area - crouch, aim, fire, throw and run.

Whilst in the cold light of day it is clearly not acceptable, if you look at the photos of evidence that have been posted, one thing concerns me - the photo of the van that appears on the collateralmurder.com site after the attack shows it completely destroyed at the front end. If you look at the video, one of the comments is "look at the hole straight through the windscreen" - and you can clearly see the windscreen with a hole in it and the front of the van fairly intact. Reuters make no attempt to explain the difference as it is clearly not in their interest.

The whole incident takes place shortly after the Apache in question had been on the receiving end of small arms fire - a common tactic was to use small arms fire to draw the enemy in before using larger calibre weapons on them or using IEDs. Context is very important in these cases...