[Politics] Well done Kier

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I must admit, the fact that Farage has thought it OK alarms me greatly.

I am trying to console myself with the fact that even a broken clock*
is right twice a day.

Not sure about a blokey cock, but the day I feel the need to deep-analyse Farridge is the day I
have far too much time on my hands.

I hope you are generally sanguine. I find it hard to 'read' you

 

[BadFish]

Do you mean it's because it hasn't been approved by the US Congress? If so, it very likley would/will be. Also, I understand some trade 'deals' can be signed off by executive order only, although I don't understand what the limits of this are, do you know?

There is still a US congress?

 

[ROSM]

lol well done ham face

That's quite a selective set of figures. Only accountants truly concern about how it compares to last year. Most people including those making business decisions deal in how it compares to the last position.

That digital services tax and health service weren't wrapped up in this and that us have now stated to align to uk meat standards as well as seeing the tariff on uk steel gone are all major plusses. Add to that the agreement about time spent at border with goods imported from us, this is in my view, a fairly deft piece of negotiation in difficult circumstances.

It's not the kind of thing that journalists will really understand (read chris mason as a prime example) and may not be a huge vote winner in and of itself as the general public won't get the nuances of this, however when businesses avoid failing as JLR would undoubtedly have done it certainly prevents the kind of situation that allows reform to breed from developing

 

[peterward]

Yep, and that is EXACTLY why democracy doesn't work anymore. People have just become too thick.

Charisma is more important to the electorate now, than the actual ability to do the job.

If Farage doesn't get in next, then it'll likely be some random celebrity like the states.

It's a shame, because Starmer's performing so well. He's actually achieving goals and keeping his promises, for a change.

...but because the right-wing press is so influencial, and people are so gullible/thick, people fail to appreciate his work as 'hE hAs No ChAriZma"

Are you deluded or just read headlines in the Daily Mirror?

Indian deal is contentious in that Indians get tax advantages natives don't have, and access to services like the NHS those taxes should pay towards, and if they're not paying the NI, who is?

The US deal isn't real a deal at all, its a general framework agreement being touted as a big win by 2 leaders getting terrible headlines and struggling in domestic polling.

The 10% tarrif stays on most items even though US has a trade surplus with UK.... you'll hear fanfare about how we protected our car industry, now subject to a 10% tariff simply as we avoided Trumps threatened 25% tariff.

We still have to pay the 10% tariff on auto exports for the first 100k exported cars, in 2024 we exported 94k cars to US.

So how is that a success, Or a good deal for all UK exported vehicles still 10% more expensive?

 

[DIFFBROOK]

Are you deluded or just read headlines in the Daily Mirror?

Indian deal is contentious in that Indians get tax advantages natives don't have, and access to services like the NHS those taxes should pay towards, and if they're not paying the NI, who is?

The US deal isn't real a deal at all, its a general framework agreement being touted as a big win by 2 leaders getting terrible headlines and struggling in domestic polling.

The 10% tarrif stays on most items even though US has a trade surplus with UK.... you'll hear fanfare about how we protected our car industry, now subject to a 10% tariff simply as we avoided Trumps threatened 25% tariff.

We still have to pay the 10% tariff on auto exports for the first 100k exported cars, in 2024 we exported 94k cars to US.

So how is that a success, Or a good deal for all UK exported vehicles still 10% more expensive?

Indians, like any other foreign worker, student or non EU visitor will still have to pay NHS Immigration Surcharge. £1,035 per year for all other visa and immigration applications, for example £3,105 for a 3-year visa

Also, paying NI contributions opens the door for other benefits like a State Pension, albeit after 10 qualifying years service. Take it that Indians will be on 3 year temporary admittance, but that doesn't stop reapplying.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Are you deluded or just read headlines in the Daily Mirror?

Indian deal is contentious in that Indians get tax advantages natives don't have, and access to services like the NHS those taxes should pay towards, and if they're not paying the NI, who is?

Maybe you should read a little more than the headlines in your favoured publication before you start throwing insults around

But Reynolds said the deal would not impact British workers, pointing out the UK has 16 agreements preventing double taxation of work, which cover more than 50 countries - including the US, EU and South Korea. "The Conservatives recently signed one with Chile for five years. So no, British workers are not being undercut," he said.

"What the Conservatives are confused about, and Reform as well, is a situation where a business in India seconds someone for a short period of time to the UK, or a UK business seconds a worker to India for a short period of time, where you don't pay in simultaneously now to both social security systems," he told the BBC's Today programme.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czrvr1plxn6o

And a little more

https://fullfact.org/economy/india-trade-deal-national-insurance/

 

[herecomesaregular]

The "deals" with the USA and India are complex and confusing to laymen so I imagine "you see what you want to see", as usual really when it comes to politics.

 

[clapham_gull]

Indian deal is contentious in that Indians get tax advantages natives don't have, and access to services like the NHS those taxes should pay towards, and if they're not paying the NI, who is?

It's only contentious because it has been misrepresented by others with an agenda. The way MPs are using social media these days, the Government could find a cure for an incurable disease and still get bad headlines.

It's only Indian workers in a particular scenario and it applies to other countries too. We also get the same benefits.

Saying "not paying for the NHS" is incorrect, since (my understanding) is they will still have to pay what is known as the immigration health surcharge.

Before the worker (in this scenario) would be paying for heath care "taxes" three times. Twice in the UK and once at home.

What deal has the government struck over Indian workers and National Insurance? – Full Fact

With opposition parties warning of “two-tier taxes” and the PM describing criticism as “incoherent nonsense”, we look at what we know about what’s been announced.

fullfact.org

 

[rippleman]

I don’t have massively strong views either way on Starmer - I think he’s doing OKAY in an incredibly difficult time to be PM.

But someone saying he’s no good because of lack of charisma really really f***ing does my head in.

Who the f*** cares whether he’s a laugh down the pub or not?

When I’m on a plane, I only really care whether my pilot can land the plane safely, not whether they’re great fun down the pub or not.

Anyone voting for someone to lead the country based on if they have charisma is being quite thick IMO, sorry. This utter bollocks is what gets people like Trump and Johnson elected, and could get Farage elected.

I’d far rather the most boring **** of all time if they’re actually good at the job of governing.

Not sure Starmer has ever been "a laugh down the pub". I remember him being out campaigning and wanting to go into a pub (down West country IIRC). The pub landlord was not a Starmer fan and told him he wasn't welcome in his pub. Starmer got his burly looky-likey security detail to manhandle the landlord out of the way so our now glorious leader could get his own way and get in the pub.

Like any pub, retail outlet, public building, home, the owner is entitle to say who can enter and who can't. I recall being astonished by Starmer's "billy big bollocks" attitude at the time. He certainly was no laugh at that pub on that day.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Not sure Starmer has ever been "a laugh down the pub". I remember him being out campaigning and wanting to go into a pub (down West country IIRC). The pub landlord was not a Starmer fan and told him he wasn't welcome in his pub. Starmer got his burly looky-likey security detail to manhandle the landlord out of the way so our now glorious leader could get his own way and get in the pub.

Like any pub, retail outlet, public building, home, the owner is entitle to say who can enter and who can't. I recall being astonished by Starmer's "billy big bollocks" attitude at the time. He certainly was no laugh at that pub on that day.

Would that be where the owners of the pub specifically invited him to visit and the Covid denying anti-lockdown part time landlord refused to let him in because he had supported lockdown ?

The Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, has been thrown out of a pub in Bath after he was confronted by the landlord over lockdown restrictions.

When Sir Keir stepped inside The Raven for a visit that had been pre-arranged with one of the owners, Mr Humphris told him to "get out of my pub".

Rod Humphris, who co-runs The Raven pub, said he was unhappy with Labour's response to government lockdown measures. He said the economy had been sacrificed "because old people are dying". Sir Keir, who was on a walkabout in the city, said he "profoundly" disagreed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56805144

But I can't find any reference to manhandling security guards, burly or otherwise. I can't imagine why

 

[Since1982]

Would that be where the owners of the pub specifically invited him to visit and the Covid denying anti-lockdown landlord refused to let him in because he had supported lockdown ?

The Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, has been thrown out of a pub in Bath after he was confronted by the landlord over lockdown restrictions.

Rod Humphris, who co-runs The Raven pub, said he was unhappy with Labour's response to government lockdown measures. He said the economy had been sacrificed "because old people are dying". Sir Keir, who was on a walkabout in the city, said he "profoundly" disagreed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56805144

But I can't find any reference to manhandling security guards, burly or otherwise. I can't imagine why

Frankly who would want to drink in the pub of such a unpleasant landlord.

 

[Guinness Boy]

That's quite a selective set of figures. Only accountants truly concern about how it compares to last year. Most people including those making business decisions deal in how it compares to the last position.

That digital services tax and health service weren't wrapped up in this and that us have now stated to align to uk meat standards as well as seeing the tariff on uk steel gone are all major plusses. Add to that the agreement about time spent at border with goods imported from us, this is in my view, a fairly deft piece of negotiation in difficult circumstances.

It's not the kind of thing that journalists will really understand (read chris mason as a prime example) and may not be a huge vote winner in and of itself as the general public won't get the nuances of this, however when businesses avoid failing as JLR would undoubtedly have done it certainly prevents the kind of situation that allows reform to breed from developing

It's only contentious because it has been misrepresented by others with an agenda. The way MPs are using social media these days, the Government could find a cure for an incurable disease and still get bad headlines.

It's only Indian workers in a particular scenario and it applies to other countries too. We also get the same benefits.

Saying "not paying for the NHS" is incorrect, since (my understanding) is they will still have to pay what is known as the immigration health surcharge.

Before the worker (in this scenario) would be paying for heath care "taxes" three times. Twice in the UK and once at home.

What deal has the government struck over Indian workers and National Insurance? – Full Fact

With opposition parties warning of “two-tier taxes” and the PM describing criticism as “incoherent nonsense”, we look at what we know about what’s been announced.

fullfact.org

Indeed. The incoming government had two choices. Close trade deals with other world partners or rejoin either the EU or the Customs Union. They've inherited a mess created by Farage and the Tories and for the latter two to complain is utterly ridiculous. The very reason an isolationist like Trump supported Brexit is because it immediately gives him an upper hand in trade negotiations. For Starmer it's like coming into a poker hand knowing he'd already been dealt an unsuited 2 and 7.

And don't get me started on the BBC at the moment. Mason is a moron, Laura K is a blatant Tory and the absolutely awful Emma Barnett seems to have made it her life's mission to interrupt everything every Labour politician says. I've long defended the BBC's neutrality. It's becoming harder every day.

 

[Commander]

Yep, and that is EXACTLY why democracy doesn't work anymore. People have just become too thick.

Charisma is more important to the electorate now, than the actual ability to do the job.

If Farage doesn't get in next, then it'll likely be some random celebrity like the states.

It's a shame, because Starmer's performing so well. He's actually achieving goals and keeping his promises, for a change.

...but because the right-wing press is so influencial, and people are so gullible/thick, people fail to appreciate his work as 'hE hAs No ChAriZma"

People say the same about our Manager. It's sad, it really is.

 

[clapham_gull]

Not sure Starmer has ever been "a laugh down the pub". I remember him being out campaigning and wanting to go into a pub (down West country IIRC). The pub landlord was not a Starmer fan and told him he wasn't welcome in his pub. Starmer got his burly looky-likey security detail to manhandle the landlord out of the way so our now glorious leader could get his own way and get in the pub.

Like any pub, retail outlet, public building, home, the owner is entitle to say who can enter and who can't. I recall being astonished by Starmer's "billy big bollocks" attitude at the time. He certainly was no laugh at that pub on that day.

Well don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Starmer was INVITED to the pub by one of the owners, a co-owner turned up and went into a full on foil hat chemtrails lockdown meltdown.

He told Starmer only old people die from Covid and told him to get out of "his" pub.

So I'd imagine him and his security were quite surprised at being attacked at a pre-organised event.

He was in opposition at the time and such had no power over lock down rules.

Starmer was subsequently apologised to by the pub.

 

[junior]

I genuinely believe he could be one of the best PMs in my lifetime - if not of all time.

The shite he has inherited, after all the damage the Tories have caused, in this uncertain world - and the way he is handling it, keeping true to his promises, is beyond exceptional.

The deals are a great effort and a sign of things to come.

I really hope the electorate don't buy into all the BS in the right-wing press. He has had to make difficult decisions and will continue to - but what he is doing for this country I have never seen a leader do before.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Hahahahahahahahahahjahahahahahahahah

 

[BS34 Seagull]

Not sure Starmer has ever been "a laugh down the pub". I remember him being out campaigning and wanting to go into a pub (down West country IIRC). The pub landlord was not a Starmer fan and told him he wasn't welcome in his pub. Starmer got his burly looky-likey security detail to manhandle the landlord out of the way so our now glorious leader could get his own way and get in the pub.

Like any pub, retail outlet, public building, home, the owner is entitle to say who can enter and who can't. I recall being astonished by Starmer's "billy big bollocks" attitude at the time. He certainly was no laugh at that pub on that day.

Keir Starmer got a better reception at my local, here in Stoke Gifford, just prior to the General Election. Decided to sit outside however.

 

[armchairclubber]

Lickspittle

 

[Bodian]

Starmer was subsequently apologised to by the pub.

How did the pub apologise?!

 

[clapham_gull]

How did the pub apologise?!

To him personally and via the media. The other owner was a bit of an embarrassment.

 

[jackanada]

Opened this thread thinking maybe he'd faintly criticised starving people to death in that place we're not allowed to talk about.
Instead it's a currently largely meaningless agreement with the US and one with India that currently maybe half a dozen civil servants have a handle on the meaning of.