We won't get in play offs all the time we sit so deep in second half of games ,

[Ward1971]

Why are you bringing this up after yesterday's game how can you say we sat deep when we put on Buckley & Vicente to try to win the game which we did in the 83rd minute I agree in previous games we've sat too deep and let sides attack us but not yesterday , we won against a side in the top 6 they were bound to pile on some pressure in the last 10 mins after being a goal down but yesterday we saw the game out defending well & running the clock down

I'm not just referring to yesterday's game , in fact I haven't mentioned yesterday's game , I'm talking in General and yes now you mention yesterday we did do it yesterday or have you forgotten the fact they actually out played us second half but I agree we defended better . AND IM NOT MOANING !! I'm delighted with what I watch

 

[brightonmark1234]

i hate it when we sit back

 

[Triggaaar]

You seriously don't know why pushing up when you have a defence that lacks pace is a bad idea?

Unfortunately true.

 

[Ward1971]

Unfortunately true.

Answer this, be he first !! Tony Adams , Martin Keown , Lee Dixon and Winterburn ! They never sat deep , certainly were not quick but were best back four I've ever seen....

 

[One Love]

I'm not sure it's that we defend too deep, I think we have to go deeper in answer to some team's tactics.

Gus's tactics of pass,pass,pass create space when the opposition allow themselves to be dragged out of possession which happened first half.

For me, Steve Bruce sussed this out and second half they let us have possession and didn't let themselves be dragged about. So we start running out of ideas. Couple that with pressing us up and our defenders need to drop deeper to retain possession so that when we lose the ball we are already too deep.

Time and again we've seen that if a team counters our tactics we start to struggle.

 

[Surf's Up]

We don't.

We beat a team, third in the league, with the best away record in the division.

If anything Hull sat too high and our biggest mistake was not putting on pace sooner and punishing them for the amount of room they left to run into.

This is what we have to perfect - teams that push up and close us down high up the pitch always leave space at the back.

 

[LamieRobertson]

We have sat too deep at times...but i dont think we did yesterday....i think sometimes you have to give credit to the opposition teams....i thought El Abd and Upson were a solid partnership yesterday....still thats only one game i've seen them...be interesting to see how things work out on tuesday with Mr Rhodes in town....he tends to be a good finisher

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Answer this then . Tony Adams , Martin Keown , Lee Dixon and Winterburn ! They never sat deep , certainly were not quick but were best back four I've ever seen....

I can't comment on a back four I watched occasionally on MOTD, not an informed opinion, anyway.

 

[Ward1971]

I can't comment on a back four I watched occasionally on MOTD, not an informed opinion, anyway.

Nice get out !!

Facts are one of the best back fours in English Football , facts are individually they were slow but you would never see them sit back .

So this statement that we have to sit deep because we are slow is utter Tosh....

It's about communication across the back line and with the mid field not how quick you are ,

It's much harder to play against and break down 2 banks of 4 than it is to beat 1 bank of 8 which is what we are at times.

I have a great feeling that Upson when fully settled will be our Tony Adams and resolve this .

PUSH UP !!!!!!

 

[upthealbion1970]

Answer this, be he first !! Tony Adams , Martin Keown , Lee Dixon and Winterburn ! They never sat deep , certainly were not quick but were best back four I've ever seen....

We play a vastly different game, as is football in general nowadays.

On the basis of GP's quote this week regarding taking more risks I'd say that hopefully the days of us sitting back are hopefully behind us for the rest of this season, and I'm hoping Gus will learn from it and encourage it from the start if the season next time

 

[Ward1971]

We play a vastly different game, as is football in general nowadays.

On the basis of GP's quote this week regarding taking more risks I'd say that hopefully the days of us sitting back are hopefully behind us for the rest of this season, and I'm hoping Gus will learn from it and encourage it from the start if the season next time

I love it when people state the game has changed so much yawn yawn , all that's changed is they are now over paid , in the limelight more and more athletic

We were playing 4 4 2 that's been around since Football began.

I too hope GP has learnt certainly for the home games

All aboard the GP bus to the Premier ...........

 

[upthealbion1970]

I love it when people state the game has changed so much yawn yawn , all that's changed is they are now over paid , in the limelight more and more athletic

We were playing 4 4 2 that's been around since Football began.

I too hope GP has learnt certainly for the home games

All aboard the GP bus to the Premier ...........

So the players are more athletic but the game they play is no different? Like it or not, the game HAS changed, dm is the new sweeper for starters, 433 is the new 442 and you can't tackle from behind.

 

[Ward1971]

So the players are more athletic but the game they play is no different? Like it or not, the game HAS changed, dm is the new sweeper for starters, 433 is the new 442 and you can't tackle from behind.

Let me make myself clearer I was referring to tactics , we were playing 442 and the basics of that system have not changed, my other point is that just because you have slow players does not mean you have to defend deep , this has cost us too many points at home and like you I hope GP realises this now and the Amex becomes 3 points a game for us

 

[severnside gull]

I can see what the OP means but the real key to me is possession. We seem to suddenly lose confidence in our ability to KEEP the ball. We speed up our play and try to force passes.

To a large degree the problem begins with our style of play - playing sideways and backwards waiting for spaces to appear and exploit. It is attractive and it works for most of the time in most games. Sides are generally happy to let us do that knowing we all too often lack that extra bit of ability to make a final fast/incisive pass. However when they are chasing the game and so push up on our back line and midfield the chances of their regaining possession and breaking through us at pace increase. That is the time when the ball over the top or long into corners would help because it is less predictable and takes their midfield runners out of the equation - as long as the long ball goes to pur player of course which is where our speedsters can play a key part.



edit: by the way 4-4-2 has not been around since football was invented. I would hazard that it didnt exist until the 1960's........ not that it is of any importance to anything

 

[severnside gull]

duplicate post

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

Didnt we play higher against Watford, look what the pace of Chdya (sp) did to us, our back four dosnt have massive pace, so push up too far at your peril.
Saying that Elamandoue is a bloody fast attacking wing back, and they were getting success down both flanks

 

[Ward1971]

Didnt we play higher against Watford, look what the pace of Chdya (sp) did to us, our back four dosnt have massive pace, so push up too far at your peril.
Saying that Elamandoue is a bloody fast attacking wing back, and they were getting success down both flanks

No wrong !

2nd goal was exactly the point I'm making , sitting too deep , Watford player picked ball up just inside our half and our defence was on edge of box , he merely strolled forward and had a shot which was cruelly deflected, had defence been 5 yards higher he would not have had the room.

Watford 3rd , where else would you expect your back 4 to be other than on half way line when we had the ball in their box ? Or maybe we should have our back four on edge of box regardless of where the play is ? ,

 

[Falmer Flutter ©]

Answer this, be he first !! Tony Adams , Martin Keown , Lee Dixon and Winterburn ! They never sat deep , certainly were not quick but were best back four I've ever seen....

I'll have a stab. Essentially you've answered your own question. They were the best English club back four, so could play a high line. They had such a brilliant understanding, forged over years and years of playing together, that catching players offside was their trademark. No teams play that way any more.

 

[JBizzle]

Nice get out !!

Facts are one of the best back fours in English Football , facts are individually they were slow but you would never see them sit back .

So this statement that we have to sit deep because we are slow is utter Tosh....

It's about communication across the back line and with the mid field not how quick you are ,

It's much harder to play against and break down 2 banks of 4 than it is to beat 1 bank of 8 which is what we are at times.

I have a great feeling that Upson when fully settled will be our Tony Adams and resolve this .

PUSH UP !!!!!!

One slight flaw with the Adams, Keown, Dixon, Winterburn argument is that they were the best in the world and made world class strikers look poor because of their attunement to each other and their insane positional play. Our defenders don't have the benefit of refining their defensive unit over a period of years or the ludicrous positional sense.

FWIW though, I did think we sat a little deep Saturday (Upson at one point was urging the team forward but no-one listened and he gave up)

 

[Seagull58]

Answer this, be he first !! Tony Adams , Martin Keown , Lee Dixon and Winterburn ! They never sat deep , certainly were not quick but were best back four I've ever seen....

The offside rule was very different in those days. I refer you to The Full Monty for a precise explanation of the Arsenal back 4 in action.