Was Mrs. T good for Britain?

[HovaGirl]

But as many posts on here confirm, there was a significant proportion of the electorate (albeit not a majority at that time, agreed) which she not only alienated, but who continue to hold her in contempt more than twenty years after she left office. There might, possibly, just be a reason for that strength of feeling, as kemptown kid rightly observes.

Yes, they were and are called Labour supporters.

 

[HovaGirl]

Fair play for digging those up but they don't necessarily give all the reasons for the emigration nor give any indication as to whether the professional jobs are being taken up by equally talented overseas applicants. A quick google searched revealed the following from the Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9177635/Glut-of-NHS-doctors-by-2020-report-warns.html

You could also look at the fact that there are far more graduates out there now than ever before with far fewer jobs to go to. Figures quoted of 83 applicants for every graduate post. It could therefore be argued that they leave because they don't actually have jobs, and possibly, and maybe regrettably, are surplus to the requirements of employers.

Come on! How come so many of our young graduates are unemployed, then? It's partly because some of their degrees are actually all but worthless. The latest trend is for undergraduates to attend university in the USA, partly because British universities have had to dumb down some of their courses, but also because there is more chance of getting a decent job in the USA after getting a decent degree there.

 

[drew]

My husband has had to do that since 1978 after 6 months on the dole, though he comes home every night from his job in London.

Daily commutes to london can hardly be compared to working so far from your home that it is more economical to stay there for 4 nights rather than come home. Also, all the people I know that work in London didn't do so because that's where the jobs were, they did so because you earn more there doing the same job as you would in the sticks.

 

[HovaGirl]

I'm not a builder,but I'm about 20 years too old to study and retrain for another job. other than facing minimum wage jobs, i'm stuffed.

After 30 years as a secretary, my great-aunt decided to train as a doctor when she was 49 years old. You are never too old to study.

 

[soistes]

No, this is rubbish. Labour and the unions had brought the country to its knees and anyone who denies that really hasn't got their thinking caps on. My father was an International Socialist (IS) in those days, and a Shop Steward and his reading matter was Morning Star. When his colleagues voted at IS and Labour Party meetings, they would drone on debating until the small hours, waiting for all the moderates to go home, and then vote in favour of the extreme Left-wing policies which so damaged Labour for almost two decades. He told me that tactic was used all over the country at the time.

This is all a bit mixed up. IS was a Trotskyite fringe group whose members would never have read the Stalinist Morning Star (the paper of the mainstream communist party of Great Britain). And both of these groups (IS and CP) had tiny memberships with little real influence over the Labour Party, which they despised in any case.

 

[HovaGirl]

Daily commutes to london can hardly be compared to working so far from your home that it is more economical to stay there for 4 nights rather than come home. Also, all the people I know that work in London didn't do so because that's where the jobs were, they did so because you earn more there doing the same job as you would in the sticks.

There weren't any jobs in Brighton at the time. So we bought the Evening Star one day, and he applied for a job in London, which he got after 6 months on the dole/doing a TOPS course. And he's still there.

 

[HovaGirl]

This is all a bit mixed up. IS was a Trotskyite fringe group whose members would never have read the Stalinist Morning Star (the paper of the mainstream communist party of Great Britain). And both of these groups (IS and CP) had tiny memberships with little real influence over the Labour Party, which they despised in any case.

Well, it was my dear old Dad who was mixed up then, as were so many Left-wingers at the time, obviously. In fact, it was his Trotskyite spoutings and quotes from Morning Star which actually drove me away from the Labour Party.

 

[vegster]

After 30 years as a secretary, my great-aunt decided to train as a doctor when she was 49 years old. You are never too old to study.

May I ask who supported her during the 5 years she was training ?..... only asking like ?

 

[drew]

Come on! How come so many of our young graduates are unemployed, then? It's partly because some of their degrees are actually all but worthless. The latest trend is for undergraduates to attend university in the USA, partly because British universities have had to dumb down some of their courses, but also because there is more chance of getting a decent job in the USA after getting a decent degree there.

Unemployed because there aren't enough suitable jobs.

 

[HovaGirl]

May I ask who supported her during the 5 years she was training ?..... only asking like ?

Good question. I believe she supported herself. Her husband had died so perhaps she inherited his estate, though that wouldn't have amounted to much, as they were immigrants to this country. There was certainly no one else to support her.

 

[HovaGirl]

Unemployed because there aren't enough suitable jobs.

Perhaps, but if too many people have degrees, then too many people are over-qualified for most jobs.

 

[Bakero]

I was there, my friends and family were there, people I know who supported her then, also supported her achievements in the years since.... I am a bit confused where your assertions originate!!... You must know of course that plenty of comments on here this week come from individuals who were not there, did not live it, and draw conclusions from here say, anecdotal commentary and propaganda..... All subjective, all no substitute for the real thing.

Remember, 4 consecutive elections.

I don't think you understand the meaning of subjective. Those that weren't born or were young during Thatcher's reign are more likely to be objective. Their view is less likely to be shaped by their personal experience. Although, I concede a lot of opinions (on both sides) are based on ignorance.

I was a child during the eighties and have since formed my own opinion of her premiership. My view is based on my understanding of the facts. If I judged it by personal experience alone I might have a quite different view.

My dad works in the building trade, in Sussex, so did pretty well in the eighties. By extension, I benefited in some ways from Thatcher's policies. I don't allow this to to skew my perception though.

 

[Bakero]

Glenda Jackson summed up her feelings well yesterday:

 

[BadFish]

I don't think you understand the meaning of subjective. Those that weren't born or were young during Thatcher's reign are more likely to be objective. Their view is less likely to be shaped by their personal experience. Although, I concede a lot of opinions (on both sides) are based on ignorance.

I was a child during the eighties and have since formed my own opinion of her premiership. My view is based on my understanding of the facts. If I judged it by personal experience alone I might have a quite different view.

My dad works in the building trade, in Sussex, so did pretty well in the eighties. By extension, I benefited in some ways from Thatcher's policies. I don't allow this to to skew my perception though.

Once again you provide a logical and objective view of things. Top post!

 

[Seagull on the wing]

Glenda Jackson summed up her feelings well yesterday:

Well done Red Glenda....but you failed to finish your speech...you forgot that under Labours reign the rubbish piled up in the streets,not just litter but tons of full bags,because of strikes by the union.....you forgot the piles of dead bodies unabled to be buried /cremated....because of strikes...you forgot there were very few trains running because of strikes and restrictive practices....you forgot that manufacturing was bought to a halt because of strikes...you forgot the flying pickets...(not the pop group) going to other parts of the country and intimidating other workers to go out on strike...and if they did'nt a lot of them were beaten up.....you forgot to mention that union barons were running the country.
You are bitter because the Labour party relies on union cash and MT took their power away.
MT was also partly involved in the end of the cold war and bringing down the Berlin Wall.
MT got millions in rebate from the EU,something no other prime minister has been able to do.
BTW....As much as I dislike you and your policies I could not sink to some of your cronies thinking...so I do not wish you'd 'Rot in hell! I would not ' Rejoice' if you died....SOME OF US HAVE GROWN UP...pity you and your cronies cannot do the same.

 

[Questions]

You must be in the wrong job, then. I've had lots of builders and such round lately, and I charge about £120 a day. .

,

There you are Vegster, get yourself a basement flat and away you go. £120.00 quip a pop.....(so to speak)

 

[nicko31]

Well done Red Glenda....but you failed to finish your speech...you forgot that under Labours reign the rubbish piled up in the streets,not just litter but tons of full bags,because of strikes by the union.....you forgot the piles of dead bodies unabled to be buried /cremated....because of strikes...you forgot there were very few trains running because of strikes and restrictive practices....you forgot that manufacturing was bought to a halt because of strikes...you forgot the flying pickets...(not the pop group) going to other parts of the country and intimidating other workers to go out on strike...and if they did'nt a lot of them were beaten up.....you forgot to mention that union barons were running the country.
You are bitter because the Labour party relies on union cash and MT took their power away.
MT was also partly involved in the end of the cold war and bringing down the Berlin Wall.
MT got millions in rebate from the EU,something no other prime minister has been able to do.
BTW....As much as I dislike you and your policies I could not sink to some of your cronies thinking...so I do not wish you'd 'Rot in hell! I would not ' Rejoice' if you died....SOME OF US HAVE GROWN UP...pity you and your cronies cannot do the same.

Whatever you think of Mrs. T, Glenda was a disgrace yesterday to herself and her party. In start constrast Miliband got just right. She really should have just walked her dog on Hamstead Heath for the day.

 

[HovaGirl]

Whatever you think of Mrs. T, Glenda was a disgrace yesterday to herself and her party. In start constrast Miliband got just right. She really should have just walked her dog on Hamstead Heath for the day.

I agree with you there. I'm not fond of Millibaby, but his speech yesterday was respectful and well-balanced.

 

[Tooting Gull]

At least Glenda stuck to her principles of decades, and outlined her heartfelt reasons rather than just 'celebrating' Thatcher's death.

We know Clegg is a total weasel from other episodes and the ultimate political sell-out, so it is not really surprising he changed his tune about Thatcher's legacy.

More difficult for Milliband. In fact I would say it is virtually impossible, when you think about it, to pay a meaningful public tribute that is in any way respectful and genuine about someone whose policies you despised.

Much as I think Thatcher put this country on a very greedy and selfish track, the parties and celebrating her death haven't been great. These people should have just said nothing, and it doesn't say much for our society now what has gone on on Twitter.

 

[Theatre of Trees]

MT was also partly involved in the end of the cold war and bringing down the Berlin Wall.
.

As someone who a) Lived through the period, and b) Studied East European history to Masters level, this statement is absolute bollocks. There are a number of long and short term causes on why the Communist regimes of Eastern Europe failed but in the main the decision taken by Gorbachev not to interfere with the internal politics of those countries was the deciding factor. As a consequence either the local political elites moved towards democratic elections, as in Poland or Hungary, or the people either tried to leave en masse, as happened in East Germany or rose up in arms, as in Romania. It is incredibly disingenuous to say Thatcher was in anyway involved other than being opposed to those regimes.