Was Enoch Powell correct?

[Pretty pink fairy]

he hasn't got a point. Living in leicester, you will know far more about living with other cultures than him.

yeah ,more than some of the dins on here
regards
DR

 

[pastafarian]

I'm afraid that no amount of "explanation" to the effect that "indigenous folk" equates with "christians" and stands in opposition to "muslims" will disguise the inherent racism in this sort of thinking. There are millions of white British people who are not Christians. There are millions of black British people who are Christians. And there are millions of British people who are neither white nor Christian nor Muslim.

Anticipating a future conflict between Muslims and what you call "indigenous folk" seems to me to be inviting people to take sides and is incredibly dangerous if it has the effect of causing British Muslims to see themselves as threatened. The conflict we are seeing is with IS, a fundamentalist, sectarian Sunni organisation functioning in Syria and surrounding countries. IS won't be defeated if western hostility to Islam in general drives more young men into the arms of these evil perpetrators of mass murder.

Shouting "Islam is the threat" from the rooftops has that effect.

You raise a good point

we shouldnt be taking religious sides in this argument
shouting "Islam is the threat" from the rooftops is not helpful

we need and deserve far greater equality.

with that in mind Instead of shouting from the rooftops "islam is the threat"
we should be shouting ALL religions are the threat,they are simply man made,outdated brainwashing cults.

I look forward to the day mankind embraces scientific reasoning across the board and throws religious bullcrap and associated hate into the dustbin where it rightfully belongs.

 

[sydney]

You raise a good point

we shouldnt be taking religious sides in this argument
shouting "Islam is the threat" from the rooftops is not helpful

we need and deserve far greater equality.

with that in mind Instead of shouting from the rooftops "islam is the threat"
we should be shouting ALL religions are the threat,they are simply man made,outdated brainwashing cults.

I look forward to the day mankind embraces scientific reasoning across the board and throws religious bullcrap and associated hate into the dustbin where it rightfully belongs.

there is no reason one should not practice a certain religion for ones own well being .....it is highly debateable whether the trouble in iraq and syria is religiously based ...there is a fair bit of evidence to support the idea that it is a tribal issue..........religion plays an important part in billions of peoples lives , just because you follow a religion does not mean you must attempt to blast all other religions off the face of the planet...!!

 

[Worried Man Blues]

are the tribes religious based?

there is no reason one should not practice a certain religion for ones own well being .....it is highly debateable whether the trouble in iraq and syria is religiously based ...there is a fair bit of evidence to support the idea that it is a tribal issue..........religion plays an important part in billions of peoples lives , just because you follow a religion does not mean you must attempt to blast all other religions off the face of the planet...!!

 

[alfredmizen]

You raise a good point

we shouldnt be taking religious sides in this argument
shouting "Islam is the threat" from the rooftops is not helpful

we need and deserve far greater equality.

with that in mind Instead of shouting from the rooftops "islam is the threat"
we should be shouting ALL religions are the threat,they are simply man made,outdated brainwashing cults.

I look forward to the day mankind embraces scientific reasoning across the board and throws religious bullcrap and associated hate into the dustbin where it rightfully belongs.

I look forward to the day when scientific reasoning can give a better explanation of how we all got here than any religion ? I.E how did the universe/galaxy etc get here ? There cant have been just nothing ? Where does space end ? All questions far too complex for the human brain ,in the absence of a proper scientific explanation some sort of supreme being creating everything seems just as valid as any other theory.

 

[sydney]

are the tribes religious based?

is religion tribally based...?? muslims have been at it for years...it's a lot more convoluted these days.......very interesting that the other gulf states have accepted a total of > 1500 refugees whereas some 240, 000 have chosen to trudge across Eastern Europe in the middle of winter.....go figure ...( as they say)...!

 

[Pavilionaire]

As regards his most famous speach- has anyone ever read the full text ? It's quite an interesting read.

Has the black man got the 'whip hand' yet ? Only I think he said 'fifteen years'. I make that 1983.

Let's be precise about this. Powell was quoting a constituent of his who had suggested to him that "In this country in 15 or 20 years' time the black man will have the whip hand over the white man."

Powell was renowned as one of the greatest orators of his day and the extent to which his constituents words mirrored his own thoughts is a subject for debate, but it is likely he knew what he was doing by quoting his constituent directly.

Powell correctly predicted the violent repercussions of a failure to integrate cultures and the numbers related to the growth of first and second generation immigrants for the remainder of the century, but what jars when you read his speech is the fact that he and the Tory Party supported and even encouraged a policy of repatriation and resettlement.

 

[JCL666]

there is no reason one should not practice a certain religion for ones own well being .....it is highly debateable whether the trouble in iraq and syria is religiously based ...there is a fair bit of evidence to support the idea that it is a tribal issue..........religion plays an important part in billions of peoples lives , just because you follow a religion does not mean you must attempt to blast all other religions off the face of the planet...!!

are the tribes religious based?

There's quite a few sources that would suggest tribal allegiances and religion are linked.

Daniel Dennetts book on the growth of religion is really interesting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_the_Spell:_Religion_as_a_Natural_Phenomenon

 

[Eeyore]

Let's be precise about this. Powell was quoting a constituent of his who had suggested to him that "In this country in 15 or 20 years' time the black man will have the whip hand over the white man."

Powell was renowned as one of the greatest orators of his day and the extent to which his constituents words mirrored his own thoughts is a subject for debate, but it is likely he knew what he was doing by quoting his constituent directly.

Powell correctly predicted the violent repercussions of a failure to integrate cultures and the numbers related to the growth of first and second generation immigrants for the remainder of the century, but what jars when you read his speech is the fact that he and the Tory Party supported and even encouraged a policy of repatriation and resettlement.

Listening to Powell without judgement and excluding all the hyperbole surrounding him from both sides, as well as the language of the day (that's a lot of exclusions- I know), he is a most fascinating character. History has afforded him what I call 'Suggs Syndrome'. It's basically where a person is made infamous, or courts undesirable interest, more by the actions of some of their followers rather than by their own words or deeds. (A problem that anyone attending Madness concerts in the late 70s and 80s may understand).

Despite some of the damning rhetoric of his speech I remain unconvinced that Powell, unlike some of his followers, was primarily driven by racial hatred.