Eh? I'm struggling to see any post that even implies that. Most of the debate has been about what you can and can't do at sixteen especially with regard to the Army.
Voting at 16
- Thread starter Pavilionaire
- Start date
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The Spanish
Well-known member
16 year olds in not seeing the world quite like middle aged blokes shocker. One of the great certainties in life. Why its a bad thing I fail to see. In a lot of cultures age and experience is respected. In ours unfortunately if you dont pander to and take seriously hormone addled teenagers then somehow you are doing it wrong. Ours is an infantile society in many many ways.
turienzo's lovechild
New member
- Oct 25, 2003
- 23,964
at 18 you're an adult..you're quite likely to be working and paying taxes...utterly ridiculous to claim that all 18-20 year olds aren't mature enough to vote
if anything there should be a MAXIMUM voting age
I know 16 year olds who have the knowledge and maturity to vote, and I know middle aged to elderly people who haven't.
Perhaps there ought to be some kind of rite of passage you need to pass, a hurdle you need to clear, before anyone is trusted with something as precious as a democratic vote.
Perhaps there ought to be some kind of rite of passage you need to pass, a hurdle you need to clear, before anyone is trusted with something as precious as a democratic vote.
- Jan 18, 2009
- 5,075
Sounds right, so how about if you have made an overall net contribution to UK society?
If you have, for example:
1) contributed a net proportion of tax over benefits;
2) own your own tax generating business;
3) work/volunteer in a key role that provides a benefit to society;
4) provided a service to the country/society?
These should give you an entitlement to vote regardless of age.
To be fair if we have a civil service who can manage the tax credit system then sorting out the above every 5 years should be a doddle.
Hatterlovesbrighton
something clever
Reckon allowing voting at 16 was a bargaining tactic from Cameron. He didn't want a devo max option on the ballot and this was the price he had to pay.
Salmond has a lot of work to do on this. Most recent poll was massively against independence.
Salmond has a lot of work to do on this. Most recent poll was massively against independence.
ForestRowSeagull
Well-known member
I think it's quite scary the thought of 16 year olds getting the vote as I would hate to think that some of the doofus' I see around school each day have the same voting power as a learned 40 year old. However, some 16 year olds a most definitely more mature than a lot of 30 year olds, I suppose the line has to be drawn somewhere, but it is frightening seeing grown up 'adults' on facebook saying 'i fink we shuld get rid of de immigrents and give us all jobs' and thinking they have the right to vote whereas I, a 17 year old studying politics cannot.
Goldstone Rapper
Rediffusion PlayerofYear
Personally, I would like to see all 12 to 17 year olds have the vote in electing a Minister for Children and Young People. Would be an important indication that the young have a stake in the decision making of this country.
seagullsovergrimsby
#cpfctinpotclub
Once Scotland is independent we'll be able to put the clocks forward on to CET (GMT +1 to allow double summer time).
Bruntburger
New member
Yes, let the Scottish youth vote for independence and save us English some money.
They get more public money spent on them per head than us and the English pay for it!!
YouGov poll of the English (Jan 12)
52% wanted the Scots out
32% wanted the union
16% didn't care.
Funny seems 1 in 3 Scot's want out but only 1 in 3 English want them in!!!
They get more public money spent on them per head than us and the English pay for it!!
YouGov poll of the English (Jan 12)
52% wanted the Scots out
32% wanted the union
16% didn't care.
Funny seems 1 in 3 Scot's want out but only 1 in 3 English want them in!!!
Mellor 3 Ward 4
Well-known member
True, but I would have thouhght that any 16/17 year old who wants to go to an English University might think twice about leaving the Union.
Surly they would be classed as an Overseas Student and pay much higher fees?
turienzo's lovechild
New member
- Oct 25, 2003
- 23,964
true plus surely uni's in scotland would need to start piling on the tuition fees as the scottish parliament won't be getting a lovely lump sum from westminster any more
Leekbrookgull
Well-known member
Right-on and if Salmond had any sense he would give the English the vote and he would be on a banker to win. I can it now an independant Scotland and 6 months down line President Salmond with be appearing on adverts on ENGLISH T/V 'can you spare £2 a month to save Scotland' The SNP don't like Royal Navy bases in Scotland GOOD i am sure workers in places like Barrow,Devonport etc will be delighted to take on the work.
If you can join the army and get shot for your country - you should be able to vote.
Colossal Squid
Returning video tapes
I'm sure polls will show that many 16 and 17 year olds would be in favour of splitting from the UK and as has been pointed out, it's generally easier to drum up nationalism in the disaffected youth. This is precisely why they want it. Brainwash the kids into thinking that mean old mother England is behind all the bad laws they don't like and life would be so much better if the Scots were fully in charge of themselves, they're gonna lap it up. Whereas the educated and experienced older generations know full well that splitting from the UK would be an absolute disaster.
On a related note, does anyone actually know how Scotland proposes to stay afloat? For years they boasted about the strength of their financial services industry, with all the big banks in Edinburgh propping up the economy. Now of course those banks are bust and I can't see malt whisky exports being enough to fund an entire nation. The rate of unemployment in Scotland is higher than the UK average so they can't exactly rely on a wealthy workforce of taxpayers, and all those on welfare will need to be provided for, without subs from us down in England. Seriously, where is the money supposed to be coming from?
On a related note, does anyone actually know how Scotland proposes to stay afloat? For years they boasted about the strength of their financial services industry, with all the big banks in Edinburgh propping up the economy. Now of course those banks are bust and I can't see malt whisky exports being enough to fund an entire nation. The rate of unemployment in Scotland is higher than the UK average so they can't exactly rely on a wealthy workforce of taxpayers, and all those on welfare will need to be provided for, without subs from us down in England. Seriously, where is the money supposed to be coming from?
Goldstone Rapper
Rediffusion PlayerofYear
Surely this rationale could also be used to justify raising the age of joining the armed forces rather than lowering the voting age? Who is to say the age of joining the armed forces is correct? As was once said, 'Old men declare war but it is the young that must fight - and die.'
The right and responsibility to vote is better stemming from a desire to give people a stake in the decision making process of the society of which they're a part, rather than a belief that being allowed to fire a gun on foreign soil makes you a good judge on who your local MP should be.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 31,701
- Thread starter
- #39
But crucially, as has been said above, you can't go on the front line until you're 18.
Completely agree with you - I think the age to join the army should be raised. Personally 18 should be the universal age for all:-
Drinking
Smoking
Driving
Voting
Consent....
Army etc
But until thats changed if you can join at 16 regardless of front line exposure - you should have the franchise.