[Politics] Voter Identification.

[The Clamp]

If it's a Tory idea, there will be some unqualified toff somewhere in line to make a shed load of money out of it and somebody else will be losing something. That's the Tory way.

 

[Giraffe]

Good thing. People might take it more seriously for one reason. But also who doesn't have ID these days, can only be for criminal reasons? I'm struggling to think of any other legitimate reason.

 

[The Clamp]

Good thing. People might take it more seriously for one reason. But also who doesn't have ID these days, can only be for criminal reasons? I'm struggling to think of any other legitimate reason.

You'd be surprised. The abuse victims and vulnerable women I work with have very little in the way of paperwork. No passports, no DL, no bills with names on. There is quite a large sector of very vulnerable people who have been stripped of these things or no knowledge of how to get them.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Good thing. People might take it more seriously for one reason. But also who doesn't have ID these days, can only be for criminal reasons? I'm struggling to think of any other legitimate reason.

Then you're not thinking hard enough. How about an 18-25 year old from a sink estate with parents (or more likely one) too poor to afford a passport for them, let alone a holiday and who has never passed their driving test, and could not afford a car, even if they did. No convictions, UK national, just never had the need or means for a passport or driving licence. The poorest and most disillusioned in society now disenfranchised.

Unless, of course, you're proposing a national ID card scheme entirely funded by government?

 

[GT49er]

Good thing. People might take it more seriously for one reason. But also who doesn't have ID these days, can only be for criminal reasons? I'm struggling to think of any other legitimate reason.

Apart from the people (many of them) who don't have a passport and don't drive? I'd guess that would be a million or two, probably more.

 

[keaton]

Good thing. People might take it more seriously for one reason. But also who doesn't have ID these days, can only be for criminal reasons? I'm struggling to think of any other legitimate reason.

I don't drive and my passport expired 3 years ago. What do I need a photo ID card for?

 

[e77]

Good thing. People might take it more seriously for one reason. But also who doesn't have ID these days, can only be for criminal reasons? I'm struggling to think of any other legitimate reason.

What about non drivers who don't need a passport?

 

[beorhthelm]

I don't drive and my passport expired 3 years ago. What do I need a photo ID card for?

open a bank account. register for benefits. use local library. attend a political party conference.

 

[The Clamp]

open a bank account. register for benefits. use local library. attend a political party conference.

Why would any of this help? most people require PP or DL

Open a bank account with what ID?

A library card?

 

[e77]

open a bank account. register for benefits. use local library. attend a political party conference.

What if you already have a bank account and don't need benefits?

I know I am exercising some whataboutery but the fact is some people don't have photo ID. Giving out a free one would solve a lot of this problem but it is putting another barrier to people voting when we should be encouraging people.

The amount of actual voter fraud is so small it is practically non existent.

 

[beorhthelm]

What if you already have a bank account and don't need benefits?

then you're probably in fortune position of not worrying about being so poor you cant afford a car or ever go abroad.

its just funny really how libraries issue photo ID to use their service, but there is opposition to the principle of needing ID to vote. maybe we shouldnt be required to register, encourage people to turn up on the day.

voter fraud at the polls is negligable, far more likely through postal voting, will be fun to see whats proposed there.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

......

 

[Swansman]

Im against it. You should stay weird and special on your island.

 

[GT49er]

then you're probably in fortune position of not worrying about being so poor you cant afford a car or ever go abroad.

its just funny really how libraries issue photo ID to use their service, but there is opposition to the principle of needing ID to vote. maybe we shouldnt be required to register, encourage people to turn up on the day.

voter fraud at the polls is negligable, far more likely through postal voting, will be fun to see whats proposed there.

You might also be in the position of being a older person whose licence has been taken away (or not renewed) because of failing eyesight or other medical conditions (that is a lot of people) and don't anticipate going abroad again so haven't got a passport.

Not all libraries have photo ID library cards. Lots of people do have bus passes though - but they are not accepted as ID!

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Excellent. Thanks for your reply. Ah, yes, the ranking of candidates in multi-seat constituencies. I like that. Direct voting for local MPs but with it clear and obvious that the people selected will reflect the rank order preference of local voters. And at the end of the day the government will still be formed by the party with the majority of seats (or a coaltion, which wouldn't feel like a kick in the teeth to those of us who 'didn't vote for a coalition' because of the candidate ranking mking voting feel different fowm what it feels like presently).

Having looked up the detail on Wikipedia I see what I imagine is the reason why this has not been adopted; there are multiple different ways of casting the votes (e.g., rank all candidates or only those you like, rank by party or individual candidate?) and transferring the vote (I won't list the possibilities and the caveats for this) and, no doubt, those who want FPTP replaced have differing views on which system they prefer. And of course there are others who favour crude PR, party lists and all.

I guess change will require all those opposed to FPTP to come together around one system and sell it, or FPTP will always appear to be the single most popular system.

Meanwhile, of course, the turkeys (HMG and HMLO - aka HMG optimistically in waiting) won't be voting for Christmas (electoral reform).

Thank you for actively engaging.

I believe STV is the system proposed by the Electoral Reform Society and Liberal Democrats. No idea which particular system for working out the redistribution they prefer, I tend to find my eyes dragging when I've tried to read those sections of the wikipedia page. I gather it was supposed to be brought in around the early 1920s but the government dropped the idea. Which goes to show that nothing ever really changes.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

its just funny really how libraries issue photo ID to use their service, but there is opposition to the principle of needing ID to vote.

Again, there's a difference between having a requirement for photo ID to use an optional service, and requiring it to vote, which is somebody's right.

 

[The Clamp]

then you're probably in fortune position of not worrying about being so poor you cant afford a car or ever go abroad.

its just funny really how libraries issue photo ID to use their service, but there is opposition to the principle of needing ID to vote. maybe we shouldnt be required to register, encourage people to turn up on the day.

voter fraud at the polls is negligable, far more likely through postal voting, will be fun to see whats proposed there.

Nor saying you’re wrong but I have never been issued photo ID to use any library service. It’s a card and key fob with a barcode. You only need to provide proof of address if I recall correctly, no photo ID.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Im against it. You should stay weird and special on your island.

According to this website: https://www.val.se/, the law in Sweden allows somebody who has photo ID to verify the identity of a voter who doesn't possess ID for whatever reason. I'm not sure why that's any more sensible or secure than the system in the UK.

 

[beorhthelm]

Again, there's a difference between having a requirement for photo ID to use an optional service, and requiring it to vote, which is somebody's right.

and again, doesn't seem to be a problem for all the other countries that require ID to vote. maybe we have better rights then they do, haven't seen anyone make that argument yet.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

and again, doesn't seem to be a problem for all the other countries that require ID to vote. maybe we have better rights then they do, haven't seen anyone make that argument yet.

I have previously made the point on this thread that it's almost certainly the case that far more people in those countries are denied the right to vote due to not having correct ID when they arrive at the polling station than there are cases of voter fraud prevented.

In this particular area, yes we do have better rights in this country.