[Football] Viera

[Thunder Bolt]

Just for reference, this was a pitch invasion that Brian Clough dealt with.

[tweet]1528127854747258882[/tweet]

 

[eaglesdan]

If only there was another example from this season of a visiting team being threatened by home supporters as they made their way to the dressing rooms situated in the corner of the ground that we could use for purposes of comparison.

Ah but both teams had the same dressing room to get to, via the same corner of the pitch. I also believe that the threats you are referring to were not face to face on the pitch, with flares being waved around, and with at least some security present. Palace had also just been beaten, not held to a draw by their rivals due to letting it bounce. So a sort of comparison, but not a very good one in my opinion. Do you have any other comparisons to suggest?

 

[Badger Boy]

To be fair, Vieira did do something wrong: He kicked out at a fan. Whether he was justified in his reaction is up for debate though because the fan was 100% in the wrong, and if punishments are meted out then it should be far more severe for the fan (and Everton). The scenes recently (Billy Sharp getting smacked, Robin Olsen getting attacked and this one) again show that some fans are beyond help. These thugs are idiots and spoil the fun for the rest of the fans who are just there for a good time.

I stand by comment. He did nothing wrong in protecting himself. He was clearly provoked and had every right to prevent a more serious physical assault being launched upon his person.

The thing that still amazes me is that someone decided to have a go at Patrick Vieira. Choose your battles, son.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

That report says

During that pitch invasion, Vieira appeared to aim a kick at a fan after being taunted by him.

Not Viera kicked a fan to the ground.

Doubling down on your assertion that the fan was not kicked to the ground?
Video evidence says otherwise.

The article also says he "appeared" to aim a kick.
Clearly a statement which has been amended by the Beeb's legal team.
Much truer to say Viera was provoked and lashed out.
Because that is exactly what happened.

These things don't have to be binary.
Both parties can be in the wrong, and in this case they were.

No idea why you are so intent on defending Vieira.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Good!

Everton should now give an indefinite ban to the idiot illegally on the pitch who started this incident!

And Vieira should also be given a ban for violent conduct.
But he won't be.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

"Officers have spoken to both men involved and the opportunity to make a formal complaint or support a prosecution was declined," said police.

So the Police gave the scrote the opportunity to press charges, and he declined.
Quite rightly, of course, but any implication that Vieira's actions have been vindicated ,are far from correct.

 

[birthofanorange]

I stand by comment. He did nothing wrong in protecting himself. He was clearly provoked and had every right to prevent a more serious physical assault being launched upon his person.

The thing that still amazes me is that someone decided to have a go at Patrick Vieira. Choose your battles, son.

Yet the footage clearly shows that he wasn't 'preventing a more serious assault' - the chav (who is equally guilty) had already turned away from PV, who only then decided to take physical action in response to the verbal taunting.

If you or I were subjected to a verbal assault in the street and decided to lash out after the moment had passed, then fine - morally we may have felt justified (as clearly does PV), but we may well be facing charges/consequences of our actions.

All the excuses bandied around about him being 'only human' etc. are simply that - excuses - as he is in a position where he should be able to control his reactions in a professional manner, which he failed to do.

If I reacted in such a way to verbal abuse, I know for a fact that I would face dismissal from my job - I have seen it happen before.

 

[Badger Boy]

Yet the footage clearly shows that he wasn't 'preventing a more serious assault' - the chav (who is equally guilty) had already turned away from PV, who only then decided to take physical action in response to the verbal taunting.

If you or I were subjected to a verbal assault in the street and decided to lash out after the moment had passed, then fine - morally we may have felt justified (as clearly does PV), but we may well be facing charges/consequences of our actions.

All the excuses bandied around about him being 'only human' etc. are simply that - excuses - as he is in a position where he should be able to control his reactions in a professional manner, which he failed to do.

If I reacted in such a way to verbal abuse, I know for a fact that I would face dismissal from my job - I have seen it happen before.

He reacted in a perfectly understandable way. I do not think he should be expected to act in an inhuman manner in the face of that tosser. We don't know what was being said to him, I would assume something specifically triggering must have been said for him to snap as he did. I think these were exceptional circumstances and not a typical workplace experience.

 

[Seagull58]

He reacted in a perfectly understandable way. I do not think he should be expected to act in an inhuman manner in the face of that tosser. We don't know what was being said to him, I would assume something specifically triggering must have been said for him to snap as he did. I think these were exceptional circumstances and not a typical workplace experience.

Have you watched the video? The idiot was already walking away with his back to Viera, who then went after him, grabbed his arm and kicked him to the ground. He may have said something as he turned away but there is no way that Viera as under threat from the prat.

 

[birthofanorange]

He reacted in a perfectly understandable way.

Understandable, perhaps, but not acceptable for someone in his position. Thank God we don't all react in such a way when 'triggered' - the place would be a blood bath.

 

[Badger Boy]

Have you watched the video? The idiot was already walking away with his back to Viera, who then went after him, grabbed his arm and kicked him to the ground. He may have said something as he turned away but there is no ay that Viera as under threat from the prat.

Understandable, perhaps, but not acceptable for someone in his position. Thank God we don't all react in such a way when 'triggered' - the place would be a blood bath.

I think it's easy to sit here now and make sweeping statements based on the video alone. I don't think any of us understand what was being said or how the man felt in that position. He was put in a position he shouldn't have been and reacted as he did. He's not a perfect man as are none of us.

 

[birthofanorange]

I think it's easy to sit here now and make sweeping statements based on the video alone. I don't think any of us understand what was being said or how the man felt in that position. He was put in a position he shouldn't have been and reacted as he did. He's not a perfect man as are none of us.

Quite correct, none of us are perfect and we all make errors of judgement.

As PV quite clearly did, on this occasion.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I think it's easy to sit here now and make sweeping statements based on the video alone. I don't think any of us understand what was being said or how the man felt in that position. He was put in a position he shouldn't have been and reacted as he did. He's not a perfect man as are none of us.

Not so.
We know exactly what was said.
Relatively low grade moronic verbal abuse,
He reacted badly because he'd watched his side throw away 3 points and is a bit of a cock.

I agree he shouldn't have been put in that position, but it's up to him to train his players to defend a 2 goal lead away from home.

 

[Brok]

Have you watched the video? The idiot was already walking away with his back to Viera, who then went after him, grabbed his arm and kicked him to the ground. He may have said something as he turned away but there is no ay that Viera as under threat from the prat.

Have you watched the video? The little shit actually tries to hide his hand!
He said something very wrong, and Vieira had a go. He sort of hit him, and sort of kicked him. Big deal.

Sorry, but Vieirra is 100% in the right. 100%.

 

[Badger Boy]

Quite correct, none of us are perfect and we all make errors of judgement.

I totally agree with you.

As PV quite clearly did, on this occasion.

And I totally disagree with you! We've both made our cases, I respect your opinion and I understand what you're saying but I disagree.

 

[birthofanorange]

Have you watched the video? The little shit actually tries to hide his hand!
He said something very wrong, and Vieira had a go. He sort of hit him, and sort of kicked him. Big deal.

Sorry, but Vieirra is 100% in the right. 100%.

He really isn't 100% in the right.

He was verbally (not physically) provoked.
He decided to react physically to verbal provocation, rather than ignore it.
He was under no physical threat from the toe rag.
He chose to react only after said toe rag had turned and was walking away.
He is supposedly in a position of authority.
He failed to act in a professional manner.


I'm sorry, but that in no way makes him 100% in the right.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Have you watched the video? The idiot was already walking away with his back to Viera, who then went after him, grabbed his arm and kicked him to the ground. He may have said something as he turned away but there is no way that Viera as under threat from the prat.

Have you watched the Brian Clough video I posted? He punched three fans and there was no talk of him getting arrested.

Fans should not be on the pitch especially when the game hadn't finished. That fan was breaking the law. Police will retaliate when provoked, and Veira was in his place of work.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Doubling down on your assertion that the fan was not kicked to the ground?
Video evidence says otherwise.

The article also says he "appeared" to aim a kick.
Clearly a statement which has been amended by the Beeb's legal team.
Much truer to say Viera was provoked and lashed out.
Because that is exactly what happened.

These things don't have to be binary.
Both parties can be in the wrong, and in this case they were.

No idea why you are so intent on defending Vieira.

I agree Veira lashed out because he was being threatened.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Have you watched the Brian Clough video I posted? He punched three fans and there was no talk of him getting arrested.

Fans should not be on the pitch especially when the game hadn't finished. That fan was breaking the law. Police will retaliate when provoked, and Veira was in his place of work.

Wow! Are you related to him or something?

Police are legally allowed to respond with force, it is literally part of their job to do that.
Vieira doesn't have the same right within his job.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

I agree Veira lashed out because he was being threatened.

In what way was he threatened?

He was called a muppet and told to **** off.
No threat was made.

I agree he was provoked. But that isn't the same thing.
It was not self defence.