[Albion] Van Hecke or Webster?

[Mancgull]

Difficult isn’t it. I did think this, but would Steele have done better on the goals?
I thought Bart was quite commanding, especially when he literally took everything in the first half, and flattened their player.

Not sure what his communication was like though….

I thought Bart was very good. However, a new goal keeper can potentially cause issues with the defenders around them.
No excuse for Webster’s first mistake. Just head it out.

 

[scooter1]

I thought Bart was good yesterday and didn’t appear at fault for any of the goals. I’m happy we have 2 keepers challenging for the shirt

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

I thought Bart was very good. However, a new goal keeper can potentially cause issues with the defenders around them.
No excuse for Webster’s first mistake. Just head it out.

Re Webbo. Exactly.

 

[kelvinnewman]

I was gonna mention JPVH having a mare against Newcastle before does make me a little more nervous about him stepping in

 

[Sheebo]

Had nothing to do until the goal

Made some tackles and a couple of nice passes I think. Nothing to do is pushing it.

 

[Farehamseagull]

The trouble is, the way we play, the full backs are rarely in the traditional position. They’re either bombing forward, Pervis particularly, or becoming an extra midfielder. A few times yesterday Milner dropped into the middle as the team attacked. I’m sure that’s why RDZ favours Gross/Milner over Veltman. I think what happens if you have a pacier natural defensive midfielder like Caicedo is that they’re good at reading danger and covering in behind fullbacks when the opposition break quickly, so the centre-backs aren’t as exposed on the flanks.

It was all exacerbated yesterday by us having to chase the game in the usual gung ho fashion and West Ham being particularly suited to counter-attacking and ruthless.

Reading this thread, it’s evident that JPVH is suddenly Bobby Moore and Franco Baresi combined. In reality, while he could hardly have looked worse than Webster, it’s a stretch to assume he’d have done much better when so exposed in the second half. His rash red card pre-season and role in the similarly ragged collapse at Newcastle in similar circumstances suggest he’d have found it equally tough. When we lose, it’s often ugly. It’s the flip side of the fantasy attacking football.

It’s a problem. I’d like to see the calm Veltman in there too and a tweak of tactics until we’ve got the reshaped midfield working effectively.

Good post.

Webster was undoubtedly poor yesterday along with a few others but the elevation of JPVH’s ability is going to leave a few disappointed when he does play against decent teams (ie. not Luton). He started just 3 games last season and whilst he was good against hungover City, he was really poor against Leicester and Newcastle. In fact he was so bad against Leicester that Dunk and the other players were noticably not passing to him. He’s a promising young player but not good enough at the moment for where we want to be.

Webster may not be the answer at the moment but I’m sure JPVH isn’t either. Pinning a lot of hope on Igor.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Good post.

Webster was undoubtedly poor yesterday along with a few others but the elevation of JPVH’s ability is going to leave a few disappointed when he does play against decent teams (ie. not Luton). He started just 3 games last season and whilst he was good against hungover City, he was really poor against Leicester and Newcastle. In fact he was so bad against Leicester that Dunk and the other players were noticably not passing to him. He’s a promising young player but not good enough at the moment for where we want to be.

Webster may not be the answer at the moment but I’m sure JPVH isn’t either. Pinning a lot of hope on Igor.

Agree with a lot of this, and Webster did have an off-day, yesterday, but he was left quite exposed by Milner particularly.

I do wonder if we’ll go back in for the left sided Ukrainian CB that RdZ suggested when he arrived.

 

[aolstudios]

Veltman isn’t pacy but he compensates by reading the game well.

Well, exactly

 

[aolstudios]

Veltman. Not Milner. Simple.

This.
With bells on

 

[Springal]

Agree with a lot of this, and Webster did have an off-day, yesterday, but he was left quite exposed by Milner particularly.

I do wonder if we’ll go back in for the left sided Ukrainian CB that RdZ suggested when he arrived.

Problem is price. He’s signed a new deal recently at Shaktar and he’s 27 now. Shaktar also know he’s the only player of any value for 10+ years given they have no hope of an academy or signing young players to build up and sell for big money like they have historically

 

[aolstudios]

i thought we missed Steele a bit as well (strange as it sounds)

We missed his speedy distribution, certainly

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Until he entered the playing area I thought Webster had done really well

Corrected for you.

 

[chickens]

I’m drifting off-topic, but I thought our new keeper did alright, though there clearly wasn’t the level of familiarity between keeper and defence yet. Despite conceding three, I wouldn’t lay any of them particularly at his door.

I don’t feel a Webster/Milner right side should be repeated. As others have said Veltman all day long at RB.

 

[Icy Gull]

In hindsight I think maybe we should have gone for JPVH, he may have been more up to a physical battle with Antonio. Haaland bullied Webster but not JPVH in the reverse fixture, that is all I am basing my after the event observation on.

I think I’d risk him against Newcastle, he has had a few first team games since we were at St James’ Park last season. We will need to be strong against them.

 

[Wardy's twin]

I'l start with why change a winning formula i.e. why replace Steele when he is doing well. Once you change the keeper you are already changing the dynamics of the back 4. Would Steele have been more commanding and shouted at Webster to clear , who knows but changing the keeper was pretty fundamental to our core structure.

Back to the basic question - seems strange we paid £18m for a CB so why aren't we playing him. Both Webster and JPVH have a few mistakes in them.

P.S. Steele was faced with a couple of 1 on 1 s in last 2 games and made great saves....

 

[tstanbur]

I'l start with why change a winning formula i.e. why replace Steele when he is doing well. Once you change the keeper you are already changing the dynamics of the back 4. Would Steele have been more commanding and shouted at Webster to clear , who knows but changing the keeper was pretty fundamental to our core structure.

Back to the basic question - seems strange we paid £18m for a CB so why aren't we playing him. Both Webster and JPVH have a few mistakes in them.

P.S. Steele was faced with a couple of 1 on 1 s in last 2 games and made great saves....

Seemed to be a very strange decision to mix up the keepers.

Could understand it if Steele and/or the team was out of form.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Had nothing to do until the goal

Yes he did -we were badly expose down the right early in the first half.
Estupinan charged into sort it out magnificently.

 

[drew]

Probably been said elsewhere but the first goal yesterday was going to be so important as soon as we saw they weren't going to press. We get it and they have to change their approach but they get then they just carry on and rely on the break. From the point of view of the game, Websters extremely poor decision was catastrophic. Kick the ball out and hard against the perimeter advertising so it comes back on the pitch and prevents a quick throw.

It's history now, on to Newcastle.

 

[drew]

Seemed to be a very strange decision to mix up the keepers.

Could understand it if Steele and/or the team was out of form.

Maybe he's conscious there are Euro games coming up and wanted Bart to have some game experience. Against WHU is as good as any. Thought he did ok and wasn't at fault for any goal.

 

[tstanbur]

Maybe he's conscious there are Euro games coming up and wanted Bart to have some game experience. Against WHU is as good as any. Thought he did ok and wasn't at fault for any goal.

If that’s the case, I’d rather him be “bedded in” in a European group-stage game than a premier league game.

He didn’t do anything wrong but as others have pointed out, changing the keeper has a huge influence on the rest of the team and can be de-stabilising.

Our squad is now much bigger with many “first choice” players and the constant rotation might hurt us as it can disrupt the rhythm and familiarity that a settled team can develop.