URGENT - Building work being undertaken without consent

[Bold Seagull]

Thanks for all this advice folks, it's pretty much what we're thinking. I'm going to be calling the coppers and trading standards tomorrow, as well as the man himself to put a stop to the talking to my dad. I didn't think he'd fall for this sort of thing, but clearly he is more vulnerable than I thought he was and this is a concern.

The fact that he hasn't provided us any written documentation so far was an alarm bell even for me, I'm glad that instinct was right.

With regards to the costings and the amount already charged (but not paid) - as there was no agreement in place, can we re-negotiate based on quotes from reputable sources?

I think you can say you are not paying until you see the order receipt and certification for the window to ensure compliance and what was paid for that. You should then ask that the rest of the works be broken down so that you have an invoice which is a mini schedule of works i.e.
1. Remove existing window and dispose of
2. Remove loose masonry, repair and make good opening,
3. 20 bricks needed with mortar and ties as necessary
4. Fit new window including dpcs, mastic and trims etc.
4. make good internal plasterwork
5. Window cost + OHP (this is the contractors cost for ordering and handling the order, normally 10% of the item price).

Once you have that you would have a better understanding of the value of the works and whether they are overpricing. Then you would have a chance to dispute what was being claimed for if you can see that only a few bricks needed pointing in rather than more extensive work.

 

[Chicken Run]

I think you can say you are not paying until you see the order receipt and certification for the window to ensure compliance and what was paid for that. You should then ask that the rest of the works be broken down so that you have an invoice which is a mini schedule of works i.e.
1. Remove existing window and dispose of
2. Remove loose masonry, repair and make good opening,
3. 20 bricks needed with mortar and ties as necessary
4. Fit new window including dpcs, mastic and trims etc.
4. make good internal plasterwork
5. Window cost + OHP (this is the contractors cost for ordering and handling the order, normally 10% of the item price).

Once you have that you would have a better understanding of the value of the works and whether they are overpricing. Then you would have a chance to dispute what was being claimed for if you can see that only a few bricks needed pointing in rather than more extensive work.

And all FENSA validated.

 

[Del Fenner]

And all FENSA validated.

Spot on. Replacement of a window requires FENSA certification under Building Regulations, failure to do so is illegal.

 

[Adders1]

This sounds very much like the work of the caravan dwelling visitors Sussex puts up with annually. I would strongly dispute the quality of work already performed. The next tactic will be intimidation, so get the police and trading standards on the blower sharpish.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

DO NOT PAY A PENNY. Firstly ask the builder for a break down of the costs so far and then explain you believe he is over charging. Say you're willing to come to an agreement based on three independent quotes averaged out ( quotes got by you ). If he refuses then tell him to use the small claims court to get his money ( he won't ! ). At court you would be able to lay out your case for over charging ( and it sounds as though that has happened here ). Also get trading standards and the police involved.

The advice really is, if you are not satisfied with any work then don't pay and this advice came from a magistrate friend of mine when I was in dispute with Blockbusters the drain unblockers. As soon as I said see you in court they never contacted me again.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Utter scum praying on elderly people, don't know how he can sleep at night.

 

[sully]

If prices were quoted and agreed there doesn't need to be anything in writing. However, I would suggest requesting a full breakdown of the charges and copies of invoices for all materials used as a starter.
Definitely get trading standards involved. They will involve the police if required.
Where abouts is your dads house? I would be happy to pop round and give an opinion of workmanship and reasonable cost for the work done if it's somewhere near where I'll be in the next few days.

 

[Nitram]

I have had a similar situation with an elderly relative. Call the Police now. In our case the police were able to link them with many other similar scams across a couple of counties.

 

[hoveboyslim]

As a quantity surveyor my first question would be how big is the window and how much brickwork repairs were required and making good etc? With the guttering how much was replaced and (did this include down pipes, hoppers etc, also what material; was it uPVC or cast iron? Additionally was your father informed of the cost before the works commenced?

You have a right to ask for a build up to this cost, as everyone has mentioned.

If you believe you have been overcharged then, as other people have said speak to Citizens Advice. Details are given in the following which outline your course of action should you believe you have been overcharged:-

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/c...s-with-cost/service-costs-more-than-expected/

In respect of letting them have the house and your father remaining in it, I wouldn't ever contemplate that. To state the obvious, they aren't offering out the kindness of their heart, they are doing it to make a big, big profit.

Hope it all goes well.

 

[Justice]

Hello good folks of NSC, the wealth of knowledge on here is amazing and I'm sure someone can offer advice and wisdom. At the moment, we (myself and my family) collectively don't have any.

My dad's house is falling into disrepair and for the last 20 years it's gone largely untouched. A front window was broken and had been bordered up for a couple of years, the guttering was falling apart, the roof is barely holding on. The windows are largely cracked or just so old they're for show only, the brickwork is crumbling and the internal structure of the place is failing badly as well. It's a lot of work, and while I'd like to be able to start getting the work on the move, I'm not able to, I have long since moved out. It's been a concern for a few years but it's now come to a head.

A builder knocked on my dad's door and started doing work, the window has been replaced and the guttering has been done. This builder has charged £1,900 for the window and associated brickwork and £2,500 for the guttering. We're scrambling around for the cash, which he is requesting to be paid on monday. He made this request today, presumably under any circumstances we're entitled to have more of a negotiation? He told my dad the work was urgent and he "had" to do it, there was no chance to negotiate, and we didn't have the chance to get other quotes either.

That's the immediate situation, but longer term this builder has quoted £30,000 to fix the whole place. Obviously, that's not money we have lying around so he's suggested a scheme whereby he/his company takes ownership of the house, my dad carries on living there and they spend the money on the house. Is this a scheme people know about, is it a legit scheme? Would you recommend it?

Any assistance you can provide is appreciated, we're not very familiar with these things and I don't know where we go next.

Just tell this idiot to do one I wouldnt pay him a penny he is only after the deeds to your dads house. If you refuse to pay he will make a threat of violence most likely so be prepared. Good luck fella.

 

[happypig]

You don't say where you (or your dad) are but this is serious. Speak to Trading Standards and the Police. If whoever you speak to when you call the police says "it's a civil matter", ask to speak to his/her superior; repeat until someone takes it seriously.
I know from bitter experience that some police officers aren't interested (my wife's uncle was diddled out of all his life savings by a bunch of crooks, including a bent solicitor and they tried, and nearly succeeded, to con him out of his house).

 

[Triggaaar]

Do not hand over a penny yet. Make sure your dad does not agree to anything more, or to paying. Make sure he knows you are dealing with it and he's not to interfere.

Has a pane of glass been replaced, or the whole window? If the latter, ask the builder to provide the documentation to show the work has met building regulations (he'd need to be registered with FENSA or similar, or have a building control certificate for the job, and I doubt he's got any of that).

He's not likely to walk away having done the work with no money, but you shouldn't be paying anything unless the work conforms to building regulations. And it's not your responsibility to make sure it does.

Also, ask your dad what he agreed with the cowboy.

 

[Rugrat]

Hello good folks of NSC, the wealth of knowledge on here is amazing and I'm sure someone can offer advice and wisdom. At the moment, we (myself and my family) collectively don't have any.

My dad's house is falling into disrepair and for the last 20 years it's gone largely untouched. A front window was broken and had been bordered up for a couple of years, the guttering was falling apart, the roof is barely holding on. The windows are largely cracked or just so old they're for show only, the brickwork is crumbling and the internal structure of the place is failing badly as well. It's a lot of work, and while I'd like to be able to start getting the work on the move, I'm not able to, I have long since moved out. It's been a concern for a few years but it's now come to a head.

A builder knocked on my dad's door and started doing work, the window has been replaced and the guttering has been done. This builder has charged £1,900 for the window and associated brickwork and £2,500 for the guttering. We're scrambling around for the cash, which he is requesting to be paid on monday. He made this request today, presumably under any circumstances we're entitled to have more of a negotiation? He told my dad the work was urgent and he "had" to do it, there was no chance to negotiate, and we didn't have the chance to get other quotes either.

That's the immediate situation, but longer term this builder has quoted £30,000 to fix the whole place. Obviously, that's not money we have lying around so he's suggested a scheme whereby he/his company takes ownership of the house, my dad carries on living there and they spend the money on the house. Is this a scheme people know about, is it a legit scheme? Would you recommend it?

Any assistance you can provide is appreciated, we're not very familiar with these things and I don't know where we go next.

Don't pay a penny and go to Trading Standards

I would get three quotes for the work that needs to be done and have them also quote you for what this character has done (checking his work at the same time) and then offer him the lowest of those. If he refuses tell him to do one

As for longer term if your Dad doesn't have the money and assuming he's retired) then go for a reputable Equity Release scheme (Avila or LV maybe) get the place fixed up and then maybe move out and buy something more suitable (you don't want Equity Release running too long, it's expensive, but in this case perhaps a useful tool)

Good luck and feel free to PM if you want to chat through

 

[Braggfan]

My girlfriend's Gran has had people come to door and ask about doing work. We only found out about it some time later after she'd paid 5K to have have new guttering put on her bungalow. These people kept coming round and getting more and more money, becuase she's elderly and vunlnerable. Don't payt this scum bag a penny, go and speak to the police.
If he calls round tell him you've gone to the police, and you're not paying him a penny. Don't feel bad because he's done some work, this guy is trying to rip you off, he deserves notthing. Your dad might have agreed to get some work done, but the scale this guys is talking about especially wanting part ownership of the house, this guy is DEFINITELY a crook. There's no way a legitimate businessman would suggest such a repayment scheme. I promise you the police will want to know about this and will help you.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

My girlfriend's Gran has had people come to door and ask about doing work. We only found out about it some time later after she'd paid 5K to have have new guttering put on her bungalow. These people kept coming round and getting more and more money, becuase she's elderly and vunlnerable. Don't payt this scum bag a penny, go and speak to the police.
If he calls round tell him you've gone to the police, and you're not paying him a penny. Don't feel bad because he's done some work, this guy is trying to rip you off, he deserves notthing. Your dad might have agreed to get some work done, but the scale this guys is talking about especially wanting part ownership of the house, this guy is DEFINITELY a crook. There's no way a legitimate businessman would suggest such a repayment scheme. I promise you the police will want to know about this and will help you.

This.

I hate stories like this. The guy is clearly a crook and a bully, preying on the vulnerable. If you're worried about any agreements your father has made, see a solicitor for 30 mins. They'll put your mind at rest.

I can't add anything else than I hope it resolves itself without too much stress. Good luck.

 

[goldstone68]

Did the builder turn up towing a caravan ?

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Thanks for all the responses everyone, I really appreciate the words of support, wisdom, advice and knowledge. The house is in the Hangleton area, I'm going to be contacting reputable builders tomorrow to get quotes and have the work assessed, if anyone on here wants a piece of the action please PM me and I'll be very happy to get your advice. I phoned trading standards today and they've raised a case to the police, and flagged the address in case of any need for a call out.

I've spoken with Dodgy O'Dodgyguy about the work already done, why it was done so quickly, the lack of paperwork, the lack of an agreement over price and means to pay and advised him about the case with trading standards. He says he's going to be at the house tomorrow whilst the guttering work is "completed", so I will need to be there as well from 8am.

How much time does guttering work usually take, can anyone give me a rough idea? This is the third day he and his "4 lads" have worked on just the guttering, allegedly.

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

Sorry to hear about your problem.
I would suggest that somebody is there with your father tomorrow to assist him, as he sounds quite vunerable to to have agreed to this work being carried out.
The builder will need to be either Fensa or Certas registered to replace the window, and the window should also be Fensa complient. This would include A rated sealed unit
glazing, toughened if any glass is below 800mm from the floor. If the window is an upstairs bedroom, then the window requires fire escape hinges to give a clear escape width
of 480mm.
The guttering, if as I expect is pvc, should only cost about £1000/ £1400 for a 3 bed house with downpipes included. This includes the sarking felt into the gutters.
If the house is in such a poor condition as you say, I would imagine that the fascias and soffits would also need replacing. Fixing new gutters to rotten timber fascias
is a total waste of time.
Good luck, but I would seriously have someone in attendance tomorrow when the crook is on site demanding his money..
Tell him that you will settle the bill on receipt of an invoice on official headed notepaper, and upon receipt of the Fensa certificate.
Also try to slip into the conversation that your uncle is a qualified surveyor and he will be inspecting the works. Call his bluff.

 

[The Andy Naylor Fan Club]

Thanks for all the responses everyone, I really appreciate the words of support, wisdom, advice and knowledge. The house is in the Hangleton area, I'm going to be contacting reputable builders tomorrow to get quotes and have the work assessed, if anyone on here wants a piece of the action please PM me and I'll be very happy to get your advice. I phoned trading standards today and they've raised a case to the police, and flagged the address in case of any need for a call out.

I've spoken with Dodgy O'Dodgyguy about the work already done, why it was done so quickly, the lack of paperwork, the lack of an agreement over price and means to pay and advised him about the case with trading standards. He says he's going to be at the house tomorrow whilst the guttering work is "completed", so I will need to be there as well from 8am.

How much time does guttering work usually take, can anyone give me a rough idea? This is the third day he and his "4 lads" have worked on just the guttering, allegedly.

Call his bluff. Inform him that you have invited a tv crewe to do an expose on this scam. If he is indeed dodgy he probably won't turn up.

 

[portslade seagull]

" How much time does guttering work usually take, can anyone give me a rough idea? This is the third day he and his "4 lads" have worked on just the guttering, allegedly "

Hopefully that is not a subtle threat from the scam artist oops I mean builder. Be on your guard