UK net migration hits record high

[Hastings gull]

Having to live at the Abbey Hotel isn't fair

It is one big mess and I never bought into the eviling up of Assad which has led to this. He agreed to democratic reforms in principle but the transition couldn't be done overnight as the West wanted, so we encouraged everyone to revolt against him, which was an open invitation to ISIS.

Bad foreign policy, naive at best, cutting off ones nose to spite ones face springs to mind and this is where we are now. Europe hasn't got the taste for Islam, even though the extreme Islam we see is a reaction to our foreign policy. Lots of pissed off young men who were just children when Bush Blair went into Iraq and destroyed the country. They only know destruction and death and that is all they can teach.

I am no expert on Middle East history, but is it really that simple? Is Assad a basic goodie who has just been misunderstood. I think I am right in saying that you are the only person ever to claim this. The idea that extreme Islam is all our fault has really been done to death, don't you think, as most if not all on here can see that errors were made. This morning I saw an advert on Sky, I think it was, asking for donations to help children caught in the crossfire in Yemen, itself hardly a country with the best credentials. As I understand it, one form of Islam, backed by the Saudis is trying to destroy another form of Islam, backed by Iran, and am I right in saying that these enmities have gone on for centuries. This hardly suggests to me that all would have been as rosy as you infer. And the irony is that the Christian infidels are being asked to pay for the children to be assisted.

 

[symyjym]

I am no expert on Middle East history, but is it really that simple? Is Assad a basic goodie who has just been misunderstood. I think I am right in saying that you are the only person ever to claim this. The idea that extreme Islam is all our fault has really been done to death, don't you think, as most if not all on here can see that errors were made. This morning I saw an advert on Sky, I think it was, asking for donations to help children caught in the crossfire in Yemen, itself hardly a country with the best credentials. As I understand it, one form of Islam, backed by the Saudis is trying to destroy another form of Islam, backed by Iran, and am I right in saying that these enmities have gone on for centuries. This hardly suggests to me that all would have been as rosy as you infer. And the irony is that the Christian infidels are being asked to pay for the children to be assisted.

Let's stick to Assad for the moment.

What human rights crimes did he directly commit before he was forced to defend himself and his Alawite people in the Syrian rebel uprising and his war against ISIL pre 2011?

Many have formed an opinion based on the "Assad evil regime" rhetoric being repeated over and over again. If you hear it enough times it is easy to just go along with it rather than look into his back story.

If you can find me any links to his evil human rights abuses and crimes I would love to see them?

 

[Hastings gull]

Let's stick to Assad for the moment.

What human rights crimes did he directly commit before he was forced to defend himself and his Alawite people in the Syrian rebel uprising and his war against ISIL pre 2011?

Many have formed an opinion based on the "Assad evil regime" rhetoric being repeated over and over again. If you hear it enough times it is easy to just go along with it rather than look into his back story.

If you can find me any links to his evil human rights abuses and crimes I would love to see them?

Thanks. As stated, I am in no way an expert here and appreciate what you write. I must admit I find this sentence odd. If he had not committed any human rights offences and was the goodie, why would he be forced to defend himself etc? Why would folk take part in an uprising? Also, I am not sure what you mean by asking what human rights did he directly commit? This sounds like clever wording ( maybe unintentional, I accept) to hide the fact that others did it in his name?

 

[heathgate]

Let's stick to Assad for the moment.

What human rights crimes did he directly commit before he was forced to defend himself and his Alawite people in the Syrian rebel uprising and his war against ISIL pre 2011?

Are you that far removed from this history that you have to ask? you shouldn't be on this thread at all if you have to ask that....sheesh!

 

[symyjym]

Thanks. As stated, I am in no way an expert here and appreciate what you write. I must admit I find this sentence odd. If he had not committed any human rights offences and was the goodie, why would he be forced to defend himself etc? Why would folk take part in an uprising? Also, I am not sure what you mean by asking what human rights did he directly commit? This sounds like clever wording ( maybe unintentional, I accept) to hide the fact that others did it in his name?

You haven't answered my question yet and you have asked me four Find me some evidence in the whole of Google search that links him directly to human rights abuses?

The reason why I say directly is because there are human rights abuses within all societies. America doesn't exactly come out clean in this when their over zealous police have a reputation for killing unarmed black people or dying in custody. Not just limited to black people I must add. Is Obama directly responsible for those human rights abuses?

 

[daveybgtt]

Straight outta' Damascus crazy mother****a named isis cube.

 

[BadFish]

You haven't answered my question yet and you have asked me four Find me some evidence in the whole of Google search that links him directly to human rights abuses?

The reason why I say directly is because there are human rights abuses within all societies. America doesn't exactly come out clean in this when their over zealous police have a reputation for killing unarmed black people or dying in custody. Not just limited to black people I must add. Is Obama directly responsible for those human rights abuses?

You appear to be correct that it is hard to find evidence of 'direct' involvement which in itself is interesting. I remeber around the time there was lots of talk of Huam Rights abuse, maybe this was more under his regime that by him directly. I have found to things that link to a Human Rights Watch report which suggests that he failed to do anything about Syria's human rights issues. Whilst I take your point that his human rights abuses may have been exaggerated i still think there is a large amount that he is at least indirectly responsible for and aware of.

One of the links to the original article doesn't work so i will see if i can find it elsewhere.

http://www.muimun.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SC_topicA.pdf

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jul/16/syrian-human-rights-unchanged-assad

It is also worth noting some of the tactics he employed when dealing with the uprising. Witnesses say that soldier who refused to open fire on civilians were executed. Presumably this would have been something that he would have had to give the go ahead for.

 

[Soulman]

We have enough trouble here without letting in migrants/refugees without stringent checks.
This is Brick Lane, the heart of the East End, these people were probably born here.

 

[symyjym]

You appear to be correct that it is hard to find evidence of 'direct' involvement which in itself is interesting. I remeber around the time there was lots of talk of Huam Rights abuse, maybe this was more under his regime that by him directly. I have found to things that link to a Human Rights Watch report which suggests that he failed to do anything about Syria's human rights issues. Whilst I take your point that his human rights abuses may have been exaggerated i still think there is a large amount that he is at least indirectly responsible for and aware of.

One of the links to the original article doesn't work so i will see if i can find it elsewhere.

http://www.muimun.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/SC_topicA.pdf

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jul/16/syrian-human-rights-unchanged-assad

It is also worth noting some of the tactics he employed when dealing with the uprising. Witnesses say that soldier who refused to open fire on civilians were executed. Presumably this would have been something that he would have had to give the go ahead for.

He took over a country under very difficult circumstances. All ME countries have human rights issues, some more than others, but when we look at the US setting up Guantánamo Bay in Cuba as a loophole to human rights abuse and torture, and everything that went on in Iraqi detention centers under US control it adds some perspective.

This is a very informative video about what went on in Iraq.

If you don't want to watch it all, start it at 32:30 and listen to what Donald Rumsfeld has to say about abuse. He didn't even know what was legal.

https://youtu.be/_ca1HsC6MH0

Can't comment what happened after 2011, the main point was what he was responsible for before. We could discuss what happened after later.

 

[BadFish]

He took over a country under very difficult circumstances. All ME countries have human rights issues, some more than others, but when we look at the US setting up Guantánamo Bay in Cuba as a loophole to human rights abuse and torture, and everything that went on in Iraqi detention centers under US control it adds some perspective.

This is a very informative video about what went on in Iraq.

If you don't want to watch it all, start it at 32:30 and listen to what Donald Rumsfeld has to say about abuse. He didn't even know what was legal.

https://youtu.be/_ca1HsC6MH0

Can't comment what happened after 2011, the main point was what he was responsible for before. We could discuss what happened after later.

I have.watched that but was widely interrupted so will give it another go. Although I see the point you are making and I think you are on to something.

I'll get back to you.

 

[symyjym]

Are you that far removed from this history that you have to ask? you shouldn't be on this thread at all if you have to ask that....sheesh!

Thanks for that, I learn something new every day

 

[symyjym]

I have.watched that but was widely interrupted so will give it another go. Although I see the point you are making and I think you are on to something.

It is very interesting and an easy watch. You have to lead by example before you can take the moral high ground and pave the way for others to follow.

 

[looney]

Well perhaps you and the other sensitive souls who can't cope with a bit of banter or a few sarky comments can put me on ignore so you don't have to put up with my hurtful comments. (let me guess......projection??).

Anyway your obsessive stalking is getting a little awkward. I think i preferred the mindless abuse, it was certainly less creepy.

Oh no your not getting of the hook.Your "bit of banter and sarky comments" is systematic game playing and snide remarks.stalking? Nice try smallfry, its you who stalks these topics when you clearly have least personal interest and start messing with those who do, it is that which is creepy especially as your only offer to explain your motives was by pm.

 

[beorhthelm]

View attachment 68564

Straight outta' Damascus crazy mother****a named isis cube.

UKIP arent very good with pictures are they.

 

[symyjym]

We have enough trouble here without letting in migrants/refugees without stringent checks.
This is Brick Lane, the heart of the East End, these people were probably born here.

You can clearly see that the pissed up white bloke started it at the begining of the video.

 

[crookie]

Let's stick to Assad for the moment.

What human rights crimes did he directly commit before he was forced to defend himself and his Alawite people in the Syrian rebel uprising and his war against ISIL pre 2011?

Many have formed an opinion based on the "Assad evil regime" rhetoric being repeated over and over again. If you hear it enough times it is easy to just go along with it rather than look into his back story.

If you can find me any links to his evil human rights abuses and crimes I would love to see them?

If I remember correctly back at the beginning, there were pro-democracy protests in some cities, not Damascus, that were eventually put down very heavy-handedly, with snipers shooting dead the demonstrators. I belive that this sparked it off, the other armed groups joined the fray. You can hardly believe that IS or Al-Nusra are in favour of parliamentary democracy and free-speech, can you ?

 

[symyjym]

View attachment 68564

Straight outta' Damascus crazy mother****a named isis cube.

Good likeness, two photos both containing a fat dark skinned unshaven bloke. 2+2=5

I didn't know they were using kayaks to cross the Med and had the time to fish for supper.

 

[symyjym]

If I remember correctly back at the beginning, there were pro-democracy protests in some cities, not Damascus, that were eventually put down very heavy-handedly, with snipers shooting dead the demonstrators. I belive that this sparked it off, the other armed groups joined the fray. You can hardly believe that IS or Al-Nusra are in favour of parliamentary democracy and free-speech, can you ?

This could have more to do with the entrenched old guard from the Ba’ath Party he inherited losing control of the situation, not too unlike what our soldiers did acting under pressure on Bloody Sunday. I would have to look into it further to form an opinion.

It would have been impossible to turn Syria into a democracy overnight. There are a 1000 rebel groups, ISIS & Al-Nusra in Syria, so if Assad did leave when the West wanted him to, it still wouldn't be a democracy, and would have been chaos anyway.

I seem to remember that at the time there were talks of the US and us bombing Assad and supplying weapons to the rebels, so that would have only encouraged the fight against him. Perfect space for ISIS to take advantage, not for democracy though.

 

[BadFish]

This could have more to do with the entrenched old guard from the Ba’ath Party he inherited losing control of the situation, not too unlike what our soldiers did acting under pressure on Bloody Sunday. I would have to look into it further to form an opinion.

It would have been impossible to turn Syria into a democracy overnight. There are a 1000 rebel groups, ISIS & Al-Nusra in Syria, so if Assad did leave when the West wanted him to, it still wouldn't be a democracy, and would have been chaos anyway. What i will say is that the theories involving the influence of the US (and often other countries) often make a lot of sense and i would not dismiss

I seem to remember that at the time there were talks of the US and us bombing Assad and supplying weapons to the rebels, so that would have only encouraged the fight against him. Perfect space for ISIS to take advantage, not for democracy though.

As I remember the whole situation was massively confused and no-one seemed to know which side we should have been supporting. This so often seems to be the case in the middle east and, like the rest of it I am not sure we will ever find out the truth of the situation. I am deeply suspicious of the US involvement in the area and do not dismiss the idea of them deliberately causing (or encouraging) instability in the region for their own gain.

 

[pastafarian]

View attachment 68564

Straight outta' Damascus crazy mother****a named isis cube.

I dont see the point of stuff like this.........well i suppose i do really......its fake propaganda

But why put this effort into making a fake image and then try to palm it off as a genuine image from Britain First and the EDL,debate the issues,dont drop yourself to this level of fake crap because you are struggling to get anyone to listen to your message.........it reeks of desperation.