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Withdean11

Withdean11

Well-known member
Feb 18, 2007
2,792
Brighton/Hyde
daveinprague said:
This is nothing to do with culture. Its about a seemingly violent drunk giving it the big un and getting a beating for it, but dress it up as a cultural difference if it helps you out during your day.
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So you dismiss one possibility of why this took place, then TELL us what happened. How the **** do you know? The shouts of "This is Brick Lane" would suggest that you are wrong, and points more towards a racial attack.

As I stated earlier, I don't know the reason for this attack, and neither do you. So how can you dismiss a racial attack?

Theres none so blind than those who won't see.
 






symyjym

symyjym

Banned
Nov 2, 2009
13,138
Brighton / Hove actually
Soulman said:
Trouble involving Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews etc....oh surprised the religion of peace again.
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To be fair, I am not sure what the message in your avatar represents then? I could swear it looks like bigging up the Christian Crusades and taking the cross into battle, and from the outside it looks hypocritical in context of your comment.

I just don't think it helps your argument even if I share some of your concerns. :shrug:
 


S

Soulman

New member
Oct 22, 2012
10,966
Sompting
symyjym said:
To be fair, I am not sure what the message in your avatar represents then? I could swear it looks like bigging up the Christian Crusades and taking the cross into battle, and from the outside it looks hypocritical in context of your comment.

I just don't think it helps your argument even if I share some of your concerns. :shrug:
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If it makes you happy I will change it, though my views will probably not alter.
 






Pretty pink fairy

Pretty pink fairy

Banned
Jan 30, 2008
31,981
nice to see the Hungarians standing their ground over this fiasco, let's face it who wants these tramps turning up on your door step :rant:
regards
DR
 










H

Hastings gull

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2013
4,635
symyjym said:
Great use of Godwins Law by the way, I will score you a 9/10 for that one :lolol: But now you say this you will also agree that with Bush/Blair and Rumsfeld not being at Guantánamo Bay, Abu Ghraib and Camp Bucca it also makes them guilty of torture and killing people in detention then?



I can only answer so many questions at close to midnight.

I am not professing far more knowledge, all I am doing is giving another angle to add some balance because, as we have learned, not everything we hear in the media is the only narrative, without bias and to not suit a particular agenda. The reason why the West took this particular stance against Assad was because of his economic relationship with Russia. If the US and Britain had economic ties with Assad we would have taken a different position.

I think your use of the term "goodie" is a bit too simplistic. First you would have to let me know if Bush & Blair are "goodies" so I can understand where they are on your spectrum? Are you saying that uprisings only contain good people? and it's these good people taking up arms and firing rockets at Damascus. There are a 1000 "goodie" rebel groups fighting each other as well as the Syrian army. If the Syrian people wanted to or was capable of becoming democratic overnight, and they were all "goodies" then surely there would be only one rebel group?
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What on earth is Godwin's Law? Is it something to do with a bunsen burner or referring to the Saxons in 1066? By the way, I don't expect you or indeed anyone to answer anything at midnight -goodness only knows why you felt that you had to make such a comment. You do realise, that I am not arguing with you as to direct or indirect involvement, just that I had said that I had heard that assertion. These things would be very hard to prove, either way.
I am not sure as to the relevance of your middle para talking of the West- I simply asked why if Assad is as benign as you claim, he needed to defend his people from the uprising. It doesn't make sense. Why would folk "uprise" if they felt that his government was benign? This is all I am trying to ascertain. Similarly your final para -of course calling Assad a goodie is a bit simplistic, but you have gone off at an unfathomable tangent. Spectrum? Blair.Bush? Are the rebels goodies? It is just a simple question from someone who readily admits that he is not in anyway an expert on the subject.
 








symyjym

symyjym

Banned
Nov 2, 2009
13,138
Brighton / Hove actually
Hastings gull said:
What on earth is Godwin's Law? Is it something to do with a bunsen burner or referring to the Saxons in 1066? By the way, I don't expect you or indeed anyone to answer anything at midnight -goodness only knows why you felt that you had to make such a comment. You do realise, that I am not arguing with you as to direct or indirect involvement, just that I had said that I had heard that assertion. These things would be very hard to prove, either way.
I am not sure as to the relevance of your middle para talking of the West- I simply asked why if Assad is as benign as you claim, he needed to defend his people from the uprising. It doesn't make sense. Why would folk "uprise" if they felt that his government was benign? This is all I am trying to ascertain. Similarly your final para -of course calling Assad a goodie is a bit simplistic, but you have gone off at an unfathomable tangent. Spectrum? Blair.Bush? Are the rebels goodies? It is just a simple question from someone who readily admits that he is not in anyway an expert on the subject.
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When you say "But on the subject of not answering questions" It sort of implies that I have deliberately avoided it.

Anyway moving on;

Godwin's Law; is if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

Assad's dad may have been too heavy handed in the past, and I believe it is documented that he had regrets, but if you are an Alawite, off the Shia sect branch, and you have to deal with angry Sunni's who are considered far more ruthless, you might feel the need to do things that you will later regret to protect your minority people. The Christians lived in safety as well and were protected under his government.

With multiple ethnic groups and grudges ingrained through generation after generation they will always have their own individual bias. So it is not whether a government is benign or not. Assad inherited a very complicated country and he believed in democratic reform in principle but not to the US timescale. We should have helped him to deliver rather than endorsed the uprising, and we only just fell short of supplying arms to the rebels and bombing Assad ourselves. As I have said in my last comment it's his economic relationship with Russia that dictated our stance on him.
 


carlzeiss

carlzeiss

Well-known member
May 19, 2009
5,867
Amazonia
symyjym said:
When you say "But on the subject of not answering questions" It sort of implies that I have deliberately avoided it.

Anyway moving on;

Godwin's Law; is if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

Assad's dad may have been too heavy handed in the past, and I believe it is documented that he had regrets, but if you are an Alawite, off the Shia sect branch, and you have to deal with angry Sunni's who are considered far more ruthless, you might feel the need to do things that you will later regret to protect your minority people. The Christians lived in safety as well and were protected under his government.

With multiple ethnic groups and grudges ingrained through generation after generation they will always have their own individual bias. So it is not whether a government is benign or not. Assad inherited a very complicated country and he believed in democratic reform in principle but not to the US timescale. We should have helped him to deliver rather than endorsed the uprising, and we only just fell short of supplying arms to the rebels and bombing Assad ourselves. As I have said in my last comment it's his economic relationship with Russia that dictated our stance on him.
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Interesting videos from aljazerra on post 1946 Syria , worth a watch if you have time

[yt]bzmbUqQOeMA[/YT]


[yt]0raO7DonLU8[/YT]
 




D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
carlzeiss said:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...olice-stabbed-islamic-extremist-10506370.html
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Whoever advised the German leader on letting so many people in is probably regretting that decision now. Put the extremist element to one side, I wouldn't be surprised if Germany experiences loads of other problems further down the line now. Political correctness stinks and because of it people with more hard line, conservative views of their religion will be able to do what they want. Germany really hasn't considered the type of people they are letting in have they.

The Panoroma documentary sums up what I am saying. Goto 11m 30s
 
Last edited by a moderator:


H

Hastings gull

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2013
4,635
symyjym said:
When you say "But on the subject of not answering questions" It sort of implies that I have deliberately avoided it.

Anyway moving on;

Godwin's Law; is if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.

Assad's dad may have been too heavy handed in the past, and I believe it is documented that he had regrets, but if you are an Alawite, off the Shia sect branch, and you have to deal with angry Sunni's who are considered far more ruthless, you might feel the need to do things that you will later regret to protect your minority people. The Christians lived in safety as well and were protected under his government.

With multiple ethnic groups and grudges ingrained through generation after generation they will always have their own individual bias. So it is not whether a government is benign or not. Assad inherited a very complicated country and he believed in democratic reform in principle but not to the US timescale. We should have helped him to deliver rather than endorsed the uprising, and we only just fell short of supplying arms to the rebels and bombing Assad ourselves. As I have said in my last comment it's his economic relationship with Russia that dictated our stance on him.
Click to expand...

Many thanks
 




H

Hastings gull

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2013
4,635
bashlsdir said:
Whoever advised the German leader on letting so many people in is probably regretting that decision now. Put the extremist element to one side, I wouldn't be surprised if Germany experiences loads of other problems further down the line now. Political correctness stinks and because of it people with more hard line, conservative views of their religion will be able to do what they want. Germany really hasn't considered the type of people they are letting in have they.

The Panoroma documentary sums up what I am saying. Goto 11m 30s

On German TV last night, a discussion was quite open that the Germans need more workers to run their economy, with their declining population which several folk on here had suspected might have been their number one motivation, though to be fair much genuine kindness from ordinary folk has manifested itself. As to whether it is all going to work if they continue to accept such numbers, that is the question. The muslim-only areas are likely to get even bigger, meaning that the indigenous population and the muslims will in all likelihood lead separate lives, which tends to be a breeding ground for mutual suspicion. If the immigrant community finds it hard to get work, this will lead to claims of discrimination, real or imagined, and fuel extremism. It will not be easy. It is one thing bringing a teddy bear to the station, but quite another to establish mutual tolerance and even friendship over time. You hope that it will happen, but would you really bet on it? Of course some will go on to be leading lights in German society, and most folk will be peaceful, but then a minority will . . well you can guess.
As a matter of interest, how would you define in general the relationship at present in the UK between the two communities? Good? Mutual respect, genuinely friendly, tense, mutual suspicion, downright hatred, or whatever.
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D

Deleted member 22389

Guest
Hastings gull said:
bashlsdir said:
Whoever advised the German leader on letting so many people in is probably regretting that decision now. Put the extremist element to one side, I wouldn't be surprised if Germany experiences loads of other problems further down the line now. Political correctness stinks and because of it people with more hard line, conservative views of their religion will be able to do what they want. Germany really hasn't considered the type of people they are letting in have they.

The Panoroma documentary sums up what I am saying. Goto 11m 30s

On German TV last night, a discussion was quite open that the Germans need more workers to run their economy, with their declining population which several folk on here had suspected might have been their number one motivation, though to be fair much genuine kindness from ordinary folk has manifested itself. As to whether it is all going to work if they continue to accept such numbers, that is the question. The muslim-only areas are likely to get even bigger, meaning that the indigenous population and the muslims will in all likelihood lead separate lives, which tends to be a breeding ground for mutual suspicion. If the immigrant community finds it hard to get work, this will lead to claims of discrimination, real or imagined, and fuel extremism. It will not be easy. It is one thing bringing a teddy bear to the station, but quite another to establish mutual tolerance and even friendship over time. You hope that it will happen, but would you really bet on it? Of course some will go on to be leading lights in German society, and most folk will be peaceful, but then a minority will . . well you can guess.
As a matter of interest, how would you define in general the relationship at present in the UK between the two communities? Good? Mutual respect, genuinely friendly, tense, mutual suspicion, downright hatred, or whatever.
Click to expand...

Mutual suspicion.
Click to expand...
 




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