[News] UK moving to “war fighting readiness” - UK defence

[Biscuit]

The Moskva can’t be counted as a modern Warship, she was built in 1983, and had, had no real updates since 2010.

Every British warship built prior to 1990 has either been scrapped or sold as obsolete.

If you think about it, Moskva was 39 years old when she was sunk, this is the equivalent of the RN still using HMS Belfast as a front line ship in 1983, with only minimal refits etc.

I know the Yanks re-commissioned USS Missouri in about 1986ish but, she was never used against a competent naval adversary.

Forgive me, where did I say the Moskva was a "modern Warship"?

I simply used it as an example of a flagship that'll cost $750M to replace, being destroyed by a drone worth a few hundred dollars. Source.

 

[GT49er]

What exactly do we need to protect ourselves from?

Little green men, of course.



Do keep up!

 

[Chicken Run]

You could argue that actually if these submarines/munitions are made in the UK (no idea if they actually are) that they would create jobs/attract further investment and do just that?

All ylthe Royal Navy Submarines are built in Britain, up in Barrow in Furness, the residents up there will be delighted with this news

 

[GT49er]

Yup, go and live in the desert for unspecified crimes with a tea towel over your head, that'll learn 'em

That's really funny. Someone who thinks we'd go to the desert with a towels on our heads to fight the Russians. Who's going to tell them that's where we are waiting for them?

 

[GT49er]

My fear is that warfare has already moved on, but the MOD has failed to notice.

We’ll plow billions into the development of new manned fighter jets and warships, while our opponents are learning how to take them apart with $300 remote controlled drones.

I would far rather that we were developing (and asking Ukraine to test for us) new drone capabilities and focusing our research on new tech than trying to rebuild stocks of the type of kit that could win 20th century conflicts.

You're sure that we're not already dong this?

 

[Giraffe]

Shows the decline in defence spending since the 60's
View attachment 203271

Not sure how relevant it is when unmanned drones are taking over. I appreciate you still need man power but most of the spend now goes on technical weapons?

 

[Perfidious Albion]

If you’re wondering why you canot get a hospital appointment for months , or the Council have no money to fix the pot holes , or any number of things wrong with our services…. You might remember this increase in spending to build weapons to blast our fellow humans to oblivion.
Humanity is better at killing than caring ………

 

[chickens]

You're sure that we're not already dong this?

I hope we are, but I don’t know this.

 

[British Bulldog]

Hands up all those who would back Britain to win a war at this point?

 

[jcdenton08]

If you’re wondering why you canot get a hospital appointment for months , or the Council have no money to fix the pot holes , or any number of things wrong with our services…. You might remember this increase in spending to build weapons to blast our fellow humans to oblivion.
Humanity is better at killing than caring ………

Or, perhaps, increase tax specifically to fund defence given things are turning very nasty indeed.

I can guarantee people wouldn’t be happy if we were militarily unprepared (“what’s the government doing?!”) in the face of increasing threats from Russia’s incursion towards us, China’s might and America’s instability.

“why didn’t they do anything?”

Oh that would be because the government was scared to increase taxes by a penny in the pound to bring our neglected military up to date.

Then the Tories get in on a promise to lower taxes. And our defence spending disintegrates (see graph on previous page).

Raise the taxes specifically for this. Get it done.

 

[jcdenton08]

Hands up all those who would back Britain to win a war at this point?

To this I say it’s not about winning a war. It’s about defence as a deterrent to prevent that happening.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

No I wasn’t referring to our Loyal Afghan’s! And are you referring to “our old lot” being service personnel who served in Ghan?

No.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

If only he'd stop with the stupid stunts and start to use his 70 seats to say serious stuff like this then perhaps he'd then start getting more coverage than Farage.

The problem is our press who only report his silly stunts.
How many times do you see a Green or LibDem on a politics show?

 

[chickens]

If you’re wondering why you canot get a hospital appointment for months , or the Council have no money to fix the pot holes , or any number of things wrong with our services…. You might remember this increase in spending to build weapons to blast our fellow humans to oblivion.
Humanity is better at killing than caring ………

I’d like to live in a war free utopia too, but while there are people like Putin in charge of armies and nuclear weapons, we don’t have that option.

My default position is pacifist, but freedom is rarely (if ever) free. I absolutely wish that there was no need to arm ourselves, but there comes a point where you either stand up for your values or are subjugated violently against your will.

It’s no surprise to me that as the last of the last world war’s survivors are dying off, the rhetoric of war returns. As a species we seem doomed to repeat our mistakes.

Nonetheless, the time comes where you have to determine where you stand.

Perhaps in generations time we will have become a multi-planetary species, even then I suspect that any planet with abundant natural resources will be targeted and coveted by others.

Until we are able to treat psychopathy at an early stage, we are doomed to this pattern. It’s black humour to realise that our failure to recognise and treat what is essentially a mental health issue is what eventually leads to situations like the one approaching now, yet it’s 2025 and here we are.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Or, perhaps, increase tax specifically to fund defence given things are turning very nasty indeed.

I can guarantee people wouldn’t be happy if we were militarily unprepared (“what’s the government doing?!”) in the face of increasing threats from Russia’s incursion towards us, China’s might and America’s instability.

“why didn’t they do anything?”

Oh that would be because the government was scared to increase taxes by a penny in the pound to bring our neglected military up to date.

Then the Tories get in on a promise to lower taxes. And our defence spending disintegrates (see graph on previous page).

Raise the taxes specifically for this. Get it done.

Or do what @Doug-ees-evil suggests on this very thread

And fund the whole increase in defence spending, leave all taxes where they are, and invest the rest in growing the UK's economy by 4-5% per year

And, as @The Fits pointed out earlier, we need to figure out who and what we will need protecting in 2035 from rather than just randomly shouting 'THE RUSSIANS' and 'BUILD MORE SUBMARINES' because I suspect that it 'ees a little more complicated' than that.

 

[jcdenton08]

Or do what @Doug-ees-evil suggests on this very thread

And fund the whole increase in defence spending, leave all taxes where they are, and invest the rest in growing the UK's economy by 4-5% per year

It will takes years to re-join the EU. Big military projects take many more years to complete.

I’m pro-EU as you fully know. Even as a Remainer and Rejoiner we must address the practicalities and realities of our situation.

 

[beorhthelm]

Hands up all those who would back Britain to win a war at this point?

depends against who.
and where's your bulldog spirit?

 

[Pavilionaire]

If only he'd stop with the stupid stunts and start to use his 70 seats to say serious stuff like this then perhaps he'd then start getting more coverage than Farage.

1. Stupid stunts earned him a massive haul of seats, the most Lib Dems seats for over a century. Hanging from a zipwire waving a Union Flag did Boris no harm.
2. Serious stuff like we should rejoin the Customs Union with the EU, i.e. the only main party leader with the balls to say it.
3. No chance of any serious coverage for the Lib Dems whilst a huge chunk of our media is controlled by the Right. I think they could have over 100 seats and still be ignored, such is the ingrained Left vs Right animosity of our political coverage.

Back on topic, Davey is inject some urgency into proceedings. And by championing Rejoin he's the only one with a plan how to pay for it.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It will takes years to re-join the EU. Big military projects take many more years to complete.

I’m pro-EU as you fully know. Even as a Remainer and Rejoiner we must address the practicalities and realities of our situation.

Rejoining the Customs Union will get the vast majority of it and I'll bet we can do it quicker than designing, building and commissioning a single new sub

 

[jcdenton08]

@WATFORD zero

I find it really hard to chat/debate with you, because you keep going back and editing your posts, deleting things, adding things.

You’re an interesting guy, I don’t agree with you often, but I like a clean discussion and exchange of views. Can we do that going forward please?

(Also, the smilies make you come across rude and unable to talk normally to a fellow human being - even one who largely agrees with you. You do you, but I personally think it’s not a good look).