[News] UK moving to “war fighting readiness” - UK defence

[chickens]

My fear is that warfare has already moved on, but the MOD has failed to notice.

We’ll plow billions into the development of new manned fighter jets and warships, while our opponents are learning how to take them apart with $300 remote controlled drones.

I would far rather that we were developing (and asking Ukraine to test for us) new drone capabilities and focusing our research on new tech than trying to rebuild stocks of the type of kit that could win 20th century conflicts.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

Always money for new weapons but never money to look after the most vulnerable in our society.

Same as it ever was.

You could argue that actually if these submarines/munitions are made in the UK (no idea if they actually are) that they would create jobs/attract further investment and do just that?

 

[lawros left foot]

I speak from experience when i say even if the Royal Navy increased its personnel (each boat will require 100ish crew on top of x2 crews of 140 for each of the 4 SSBN’s ) with this manpower requirement they will have to ‘press gang’ new recruits into joining the Submarine service (currently most volunteer for the xtra pay) which produces problems as normally you either want to be a submariner or you don’t, having someone on your crew who doesn’t is a real issue.

When I was a sprog, I was drafted to boats. I really didn’t want to be a submariner, I joined up to travel the world, not be cooped up in a tin can for months on end, going under the sea at Greenock or Plymouth, and coming up 3 months later having visited no foreign ports.

Thankfully, I failed the medical, I had been knocked out while boxing, and you couldn’t be a sun dodger if there was any chance of a brain injury. It did come back to bite me when I tried to branch change to Aircrewman on helos only to be told the same rules apply.

That’s life in a blue suit, I suppose.

 

[Mustafa II]

My fear is that warfare has already moved on, but the MOD has failed to notice.

We’ll plow billions into the development of new manned fighter jets and warships, while our opponents are learning how to take them apart with $300 remote controlled drones.

I would far rather that we were developing (and asking Ukraine to test for us) new drone capabilities and focusing our research on new tech than trying to rebuild stocks of the type of kit that could win 20th century conflicts.

I would imagine the idea will be to make modern jets and warships fully drone-resistant. Ours at least, probably are already.

 

[Biscuit]

My fear is that warfare has already moved on, but the MOD has failed to notice.

We’ll plow billions into the development of new manned fighter jets and warships, while our opponents are learning how to take them apart with $300 remote controlled drones.

I would far rather that we were developing (and asking Ukraine to test for us) new drone capabilities and focusing our research on new tech than trying to rebuild stocks of the type of kit that could win 20th century conflicts.

I think your fears are unfounded. If Ukraine has taught us anything, it's how modern wars are being fought.

The sinking of the Moskva - the flagship of the Russian Navy's Black Sea Fleet - was attacked and sunk by a cobbled-together seadrone costing a few hundred dollars. It's estimated the Moskva will cost Russia $750M to replace...

What's more, in the last week, the Government has announced they're setting up the Cyber and Electromagnetic Command and are hinting about the need for diversification of our nuclear deterrent.. So I don't think you need to worry that we're focusing on the wrong areas. The issue will be the speed of innovation. Things simply take far too long to go from planning to production.

We're building up our capabilities, but we're starting wayyy behind the curve. We need to spend a serious amount of money and build out in nearly all areas. Put it this way, if war broke out tomorrow, we'd be out of ammo in eight days. If we lost troops at the rate Russia is in Ukraine, the entire British Army would be wiped out in about six weeks. The size of our military is simply far too small and we don't have enough of the basics.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You could argue that actually if these submarines/munitions are made in the UK (no idea if they actually are) that they would create jobs/attract further investment and do just that?

Barrow (not wheel)

 

[Thunder Bolt]

They have already got a proven track record for deserting, no thank you

Are you referring to Afghans we deserted in Kabul, whilst our politicians were on the beach trying to find the sea? At least one Afghan pilot arrived by boat from France, as did the young lad now playing for Lancashire cricket club.
interpreters and Afghan servicemen that we left behind, shame on us.
They’ve shown more commitment and ingenuity than many of our old lot.

 

[portslade seagull]

Does this mean I need to start digging out for an Anderson shelter ... has anyone got a spare shovel

 

[lawros left foot]

I would imagine the idea will be to make modern jets and warships fully drone-resistant. Ours at least, probably are already.

I think that our warships and modern jets are fairly drone/electronic warfare proof as shown recently in the Red Sea where our frigates have had a lot of success against Houti drones.
The problem will be, as Russia and Ukraine are finding out, the vulnerability of armoured vehicles, tanks and personnel carriers, to cheap as chips explosive drones.

We need to plan for the next war, not the last one.

 

[lawros left foot]

I think your fears are unfounded. If Ukraine has taught us anything, it's how modern wars are being fought.

The sinking of the Moskva - the flagship of the Russian Navy's Black Sea Fleet - was attacked and sunk by a cobbled-together seadrone costing a few hundred dollars. It's estimated the Moskva will cost Russia $750M to replace...

What's more, in the last week, the Government has announced they're setting up the Cyber and Electromagnetic Command and are hinting about the need for diversification of our nuclear deterrent.. So I don't think you need to worry that we're focusing on the wrong areas. The issue will be the speed of innovation. Things simply take far too long to go from planning to production.

We're building up our capabilities, but we're starting wayyy behind the curve. We need to spend a serious amount of money and build out in nearly all areas. Put it this way, if war broke out tomorrow, we'd be out of ammo in eight days. If we lost troops at the rate Russia is in Ukraine, the entire British Army would be wiped out in about six weeks. The size of our military is simply far too small and we don't have enough of the basics.

The Moskva can’t be counted as a modern Warship, she was built in 1983, and had, had no real updates since 2010.

Every British warship built prior to 1990 has either been scrapped or sold as obsolete.

If you think about it, Moskva was 39 years old when she was sunk, this is the equivalent of the RN still using HMS Belfast as a front line ship in 1983, with only minimal refits etc.

I know the Yanks re-commissioned USS Missouri in about 1986ish but, she was never used against a competent naval adversary.

 

[WATFORD zero]

My fear is that warfare has already moved on, but the MOD has failed to notice.

We’ll plow billions into the development of new manned fighter jets and warships, while our opponents are learning how to take them apart with $300 remote controlled drones.

I would far rather that we were developing (and asking Ukraine to test for us) new drone capabilities and focusing our research on new tech than trying to rebuild stocks of the type of kit that could win 20th century conflicts.

If we are talking about how we invest our increasing defence budget over the next decade, it would be worthwhile taking a long look at what's going on in Ukraine and elsewhere in the world, because by 2035 I'm really not sure that large multi-million pound military assets and huge numbers of personnel will be as beneficial as they have been in the past.

Particularly if your country's energy sources, infrastructure, electronics or banking systems are under attack

 

[The Fits]

What exactly do we need to protect ourselves from?

 

[Guinness Boy]

When I was a sprog, I was drafted to boats. I really didn’t want to be a submariner, I joined up to travel the world, not be cooped up in a tin can for months on end, going under the sea at Greenock or Plymouth, and coming up 3 months later having visited no foreign ports.

Thankfully, I failed the medical, I had been knocked out while boxing, and you couldn’t be a sun dodger if there was any chance of a brain injury. It did come back to bite me when I tried to branch change to Aircrewman on helos only to be told the same rules apply.

That’s life in a blue suit, I suppose.

I went to games with an ex-submariner until fairly recently, when he moved away to Devon and gave up his ST. He made it to the Philippines at one point and he has the scar and shit tat from Subic Bay to prove it (and a very funny story).

However, that's his only colourful story and some of the things he told me would make most normal people go f**k that. He's also an incredibly talented engineer who can put just about anything together. The chances of finding a whole lot of similar young people these days doesn't seem likely. Even in our group of Gen Xs I can't think of anyone who'd have wanted to do that or been good at it.

 

[Hamilton]

 

[Hamilton]

Ed Davey is correct

"Keir Starmer is showing a concerning lack of urgency on reaching 3%.

"With Putin waging war, Trump undermining Nato and conflicts raging, we must deliver for our armed forces and Britain's security in an increasingly unstable world. Anything less would be a dereliction of duty.

“I once again urge the prime minister to convene cross-party talks to allow us to get to 3% as soon as possible, and faster than 2034."

If only he'd stop with the stupid stunts and start to use his 70 seats to say serious stuff like this then perhaps he'd then start getting more coverage than Farage.

 

[Chicken Run]

Are you referring to Afghans we deserted in Kabul, whilst our politicians were on the beach trying to find the sea? At least one Afghan pilot arrived by boat from France, as did the young lad now playing for Lancashire cricket club.
interpreters and Afghan servicemen that we left behind, shame on us.
They’ve shown more commitment and ingenuity than many of our old lot.

No I wasn’t referring to our Loyal Afghan’s! And are you referring to “our old lot” being service personnel who served in Ghan?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

If only he'd stop with the stupid stunts and start to use his 70 seats to say serious stuff like this then perhaps he'd then start getting more coverage than Farage.

I Agree , Davey is a cupid stunt.

 

[jcdenton08]

I’m out tonight, please don’t shit up the thread, this is an important topic.

 

[beorhthelm]

What exactly do we need to protect ourselves from?

hopefully that's covered in the defence review, identifying the primary threats. off hand the talk from Nato, european leaders and military for 2 years is about the imminent threat to Baltics and Poland from Russia. there we have obligation to assist. there would be naval and air threats from Russia in that event. then there's threat from any hostile nation to cause distruption in our domstic infrastucture. that's where there's a lot of new unconventional defense spending needed to assess and create defenses for things that are hypothetical and difficult to protect.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

My fear is that warfare has already moved on, but the MOD has failed to notice.

We’ll plow billions into the development of new manned fighter jets and warships, while our opponents are learning how to take them apart with $300 remote controlled drones.

I would far rather that we were developing (and asking Ukraine to test for us) new drone capabilities and focusing our research on new tech than trying to rebuild stocks of the type of kit that could win 20th century conflicts.

The minister mentioned drones a few minutes ago.