[News] UK moving to “war fighting readiness” - UK defence

[jcdenton08]

Much as we all dread to think about the possibility of war on our shores, a big day today with Starmer’s pledges.

Starmer says UK moving to 'war-fighting readiness' as he unveils defence spending plans

But the prime minister declines to give a precise date on when defence spending will hit 3% of GDP.

www.bbc.co.uk

It feels appropriate to have a dedicated thread to discussing UK defence, which is an issue quite apart from party politics in my opinion.

Mods feel free to merge if a similar thread exists and I’ve missed it.

 

[Mellotron]

It feels appropriate to have a dedicated thread to discussing UK defence, which is an issue quite apart from party politics in my opinion.

Yeah....best of luck there.

 

[jcdenton08]

Yeah....best of luck there.

I’ve seen recently that we can all have a civilised discussion and exchange of views when we put our minds to it

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Ed Davey is correct

"Keir Starmer is showing a concerning lack of urgency on reaching 3%.

"With Putin waging war, Trump undermining Nato and conflicts raging, we must deliver for our armed forces and Britain's security in an increasingly unstable world. Anything less would be a dereliction of duty.

“I once again urge the prime minister to convene cross-party talks to allow us to get to 3% as soon as possible, and faster than 2034."

 

[lawros left foot]

Even if we can afford the actual kit that has been planned, 12 new nuclear subs don’t come cheap, upwards of 2 billion a piece,plus a lot more billions in maintenance and support etc,where is the manpower going to come from?

We already have a shortfall in recruitment in all 3 services, will we have to re-introduce conscription in some form?

 

[jcdenton08]

Ed Davey is correct

"Keir Starmer is showing a concerning lack of urgency on reaching 3%.

"With Putin waging war, Trump undermining Nato and conflicts raging, we must deliver for our armed forces and Britain's security in an increasingly unstable world. Anything less would be a dereliction of duty.

“I once again urge the prime minister to convene cross-party talks to allow us to get to 3% as soon as possible, and faster than 2034."

I absolutely agree with him on this too.

When it takes the Lib Dem leader of all people to make the point about our lack of war readiness, you know things have to change.

 

[studio150]

 

[jcdenton08]

It’s brilliantly written, but it does completely ignore MAD.

 

[Sussax]

Ideally we’d need the defence budget to be back to 90s levels (% wise), we live in a vastly different world now.

Unfortunately that money has to come from somewhere that won’t help an already unpopular government.

Seeing the fruition of decades of cuts and now we’re scrambling.

 

[TomandJerry]

Shows the decline in defence spending since the 60's

 

[jcdenton08]

Ideally we’d need the defence budget to be back to 90s levels (% wise), we live in a vastly different world now.

Unfortunately that money has to come from somewhere that won’t help an already unpopular government.

Seeing the fruition of decades of cuts and now we’re scrambling.

I do wonder about this - I’d like to see the YouGov or whatever polling of “Would you support a tax rise to increase defence spending?”

 

[darkwolf666]

Ed Davey is correct

"Keir Starmer is showing a concerning lack of urgency on reaching 3%.

"With Putin waging war, Trump undermining Nato and conflicts raging, we must deliver for our armed forces and Britain's security in an increasingly unstable world. Anything less would be a dereliction of duty.

“I once again urge the prime minister to convene cross-party talks to allow us to get to 3% as soon as possible, and faster than 2034."

Unfortunately, as with Reform, it is very easy to snipe from the sidelines, knowing you're not the ones making the unpopular cost decisions, like removing winter fuel allowance.

Something has to give to reach the target sooner, I wonder what Mr Davey would like to see cut to pay for it now?

 

[darkwolf666]

I do wonder about this - I’d like to see the YouGov or whatever polling of “Would you support a tax rise to increase defence spending?”

People would vote yes on a YouGov poll, then moan like f*** when it affected their take home pay!!!

 

[Doug-ees-evil]

Read somewhere (Mike Martin MP / @ThreshedThought I think) that our army is at its lowest levels (numbers wise) since 1790.

*edit here's the link:

 

[TomandJerry]

Read somewhere (Mike Martin MP / @ThreshedThought I think) that our army is at its lowest levels (numbers wise) since 1790

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Ed Davey is correct

"Keir Starmer is showing a concerning lack of urgency on reaching 3%.

"With Putin waging war, Trump undermining Nato and conflicts raging, we must deliver for our armed forces and Britain's security in an increasingly unstable world. Anything less would be a dereliction of duty.

“I once again urge the prime minister to convene cross-party talks to allow us to get to 3% as soon as possible, and faster than 2034."

Absurd levels of posturing by Ed Davey IMHO

 

[lawros left foot]

With regard to manpower for the forces, the Royal Navy should be alright.

As MSM keep telling us, ad infinitum, there’s boatloads of fighting age men arriving in the country on a daily basis, all with seagoing experience.

 

[jcdenton08]

People would vote yes on a YouGov poll, then moan like f*** when it affected their take home pay!!!

You’re probably right there. For the record I personally wouldn’t, because in my opinion we are critically unprepared due to the death by a thousand cuts imposed on the defence budget.

A useless but interesting barometer for me on the seriousness of a situation is my old Mum. If she takes in a news story and pays attention, I think a lot of people similar will react the same (retired, no interest in party politics).

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Unfortunately, as with Reform, it is very easy to snipe from the sidelines, knowing you're not the ones making the unpopular cost decisions, like removing winter fuel allowance.

Something has to give to reach the target sooner, I wonder what Mr Davey would like to see cut to pay for it now?

To be fair to him, the alternative as leader of an opposition party is just to say "yeah that sounds about right". It's hardly the most unreasonable position to suggest we need to find a way to increase spending more quickly.

Certainly compared to Reform just arbitrarily saying they'll spend billions of pounds on things without any suggestion of how it might be paid for.

 

[jcdenton08]

To be fair to him, the alternative as leader of an opposition party is just to say "yeah that sounds about right". It's hardly the most unreasonable position to suggest we need to find a way to increase spending more quickly.

Certainly compared to Reform just arbitrarily saying they'll spend billions of pounds on things without any suggestion of how it might be paid for.

And his target is a realistic one, indeed one the government agree on - Davey is just saying it’s a bit more urgent than the PM’s choices suggest, and I agree with that. Reform have no costings or actionable plans.