Turkey 2 Netherlands 0

[Iggle Piggle]

Or is it that the other nations have grown stronger? Wales, Iceland, Austria, Slovakia, N Ireland and Albania all look like qualifying (and most of these would qualify if it were a 16-team tournament). That's some transformation

I'm of the personal belief that the 3 teams qualifying from the group has given historically underperforming teams a boost. There is a belief that they can qualify which is turn means the top players turn up, the games are more competitive and the groups have thrown up some surprises. If, plucking a team out of the air, Northern Ireland lose the first 2 games, half the team get ''injured'' for the next 2, the team lose more games, they get steamrollered and they effectively give up. That hasn't happened this time.

I wasn't a fan of the 24 team Euro's and the proof will be in France next year. The qualification phase, however, has been a vast improvement on the normal bore fest. There are more games that matter and they are better for it.

 

[Gwylan]

Well Wales are a one-man team, thus was proved by their inability to beat Israel and reliance on Bale to beat Cyprus. Go back to 2004, go thru the France team, England, Portugal, Dutch, Italy, Czech - all class sides.

I don't buy this. For a start, Wales have got one of the best defences in the qualifiers, that's not down to Bale. And second, there are plenty of examples of a team having a class player but not getting anywhere. Off the top of my head, N Ireland with Best, Finland with Litmanen and, er, Wales with Giggs. Having one good player doesn't make a team.

I'm of the personal belief that the 3 teams qualifying from the group has given historically underperforming teams a boost. There is a belief that they can qualify which is turn means the top players turn up, the games are more competitive and the groups have thrown up some surprises. If, plucking a team out of the air, Northern Ireland lose the first 2 games, half the team get ''injured'' for the next 2, the team lose more games, they get steamrollered and they effectively give up. That hasn't happened this time.

I wasn't a fan of the 24 team Euro's and the proof will be in France next year. The qualification phase, however, has been a vast improvement on the normal bore fest. There are more games that matter and they are better for it.

Yes, there's some truth in that. The obverse is also true: the established teams know that they're pretty much guaranteed to qualify so don't have to make much effort - alhough, Netherlands seem to have shot themselves in the foot

 

[Phat Baz 68]

Iceland have qualified

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Yes, there's some truth in that. The obverse is also true: the established teams know that they're pretty much guaranteed to qualify so don't have to make much effort - alhough, Netherlands seem to have shot themselves in the foot

I'd agree. It has made qualification more interesting overall but not for an England fan. From the moment we beat Switzerland we've essentially been there. I'll watch the NI game tonight and caught the Welsh game at the weekend but will pass on the England game tomorrow. I actually have tickets for England V Estonia - I'd imagine it will be half full.

As for the Dutch they've made a dogs breakfast in qualification and in tournaments many times previously. Either that or lost in the final. Quite why or how history repeats itself is a mystery to me.