Tree-huggers disagree with Greens

[KNC]

It is NOT a death trap. I use it 4 times a day. Yeah, it's busy, but so is every junction.
Most accidents (and I haven't seen many) are caused by idiots. The 'improvements' will make no difference.
It's a 7 road junction, FFS, you just have to be careful.

Nice to see the green apologist having his input.

 

[The Large One]

It is NOT a death trap. I use it 4 times a day. Yeah, it's busy, but so is every junction.
Most accidents (and I haven't seen many) are caused by idiots. The 'improvements' will make no difference.
It's a 7 road junction, FFS, you just have to be careful.

Nice to see the green apologist having his input.

Why bring in party politics? The OP did, but this isn't about party politics.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

You're tying yourself up in knots by saying it's fine for pedestrians, then acknowledging it's bad for drivers. It's a junction for everyone (pedestrians, cars, bikes, motorcycles, buses etc), but then you're denying a problem. Or rather, the need for a solution.

Sure, if everyone used the junction properly, you wouldn't get accidents - but they don't, and you do. Or is your maxim 'not enough people have been hurt badly enough for us to do something?'

The point is it was a problem 15 years ago, and nothing was done. There's nothing specific about 'now' as in 8 March 2013 - more that finally it's being dealt with.

The problems are about seven roads converging on one, but seeing as they're not going to block off any roads, then they have to deal with seven roads. So the layout has to be appropriate.

But I'll re-ask my question, what is your problem with the new layout?

I don't think you'll find it's always the bad drivers who get hurt. Apologies for pointing out the obvious.

There are accidents on roads everywhere. I've just read through the full details of the scheme on the Council website, and whilst they present it extremely well, it still comes across as being work done for the sake of getting work done. I'm suprised at the number of accidents, I assumed it would be higher. It's actually relatively low if you consider the amount of traffic which goes through there. And by traffic I am referring to all the forms you mentioned, and there are how many people using the Seven Dials daily? Without more accidents.

My "problem" with the layout is that I am at work and there isn't much to do, so I've looked into it properly. Personally, I have nothing specifically against it. The workmen need work, the pavements do need repaving and I'm not specifically against "improvement" works. I use the Dials every day, and I honestly don't see a problem with the current layout. It would be nice if there was more room on the pavements when you're turning the corner about to head down New England Road from Dyke Road, but it's hardly a disaster. To use my glib comment from the previous post, I've never been killed attempting to turn that corner, so how bad can it be.

Thanks for missing/ignoring my poor attempt at humour. I would like to confirm that he has never hit anyone, either.

Moving on slightly, when will the CARNAGE at Fiveways end?!?!?!?!?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

And do YOU, personally, consider that to be an acceptable and necessary timeframe? I genuinely can't believe it takes 18 months, not if you want to get it done quicker. Are they going to repave the road as well, or will it be nice and patchwork until they decide to cause even more chaos when they eventually decide to repave the whole thing on both sides, a side at a time? Which will, presumably, take about a year.

Personally? Since I'm trying to run a transport business out of Preston Barracks, I'm suffering nothing but inconvenience for the entire duration of the works. The restrictions currently in place at the bottom of Coombe Road are particularly troublesome at the moment, as are the problems of making right turns out of Preston Barracks and on to Lewes Road. To say nothing of slow moving traffic queues that arise from the contractors' activities. But, hey! I'm philosophical about these things. The scheme will eventually deliver fewer delays at some of the junctions on Lewes Road and the bus lanes will improve operational efficiencies for those of us who can use them. Incidentally, to keep this response personal (which is what you asked for), I very rarely drive a car along Lewes Road. I use the train or bus to travel to and from work - because it's quicker and cheaper to do so. Even during these roadworks.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Personally? Since I'm trying to run a transport business out of Preston Barracks, I'm suffering nothing but inconvenience for the entire duration of the works. The restrictions currently in place at the bottom of Coombe Road are particularly troublesome at the moment, as are the problems of making right turns out of Preston Barracks and on to Lewes Road. To say nothing of slow moving traffic queues that arise from the contractors' activities. But, hey! I'm philosophical about these things. The scheme will eventually deliver fewer delays at some of the junctions on Lewes Road and the bus lanes will improve operational efficiencies for those of us who can use them. Incidentally, to keep this response personal (which is what you asked for), I very rarely drive a car along Lewes Road. I use the train or bus to travel to and from work - because it's quicker and cheaper to do so. Even during these roadworks.

Exactly as I asked for. I don't argue that longer term the works will PROBABLY improve the whole management of the road. But to take 18 months (if they finish on time) seems very excessive to me. My dear old Ma lives in Bevendean and of course the Amex requires the use of Lewes Road if using the buses so I've experienced a fair amount of time sat around on a bus waiting to get through, which partly clouds my judgement of the whole situation.

As a fair weather cyclist, I'll probably flip flip my opinion entirely when it is all completed and you can fly along at leisure. I do worry what the improvements mean for the Bike Train though.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

As a fair weather cyclist, I'll probably flip flip my opinion entirely when it is all completed and you can fly along at leisure. I do worry what the improvements mean for the Bike Train though.

The Bike Train was, of course, originally conceived as a protest against the poor facilities that the existing cycle lanes provide for cyclists on Lewes Road. It may well be the case (and, hopefully, will be the case) that the new scheme will permit cyclists to "fly along at leisure" (and in safety). In which case, I would imagine that the Bike Train will no longer be needed. Or it could be revived elsewhere in the city ... Eastern Road / Edward Street, for example.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

The Bike Train was, of course, originally conceived as a protest against the poor facilities that the existing cycle lanes provide for cyclists on Lewes Road. It may well be the case (and, hopefully, will be the case) that the new scheme will permit cyclists to "fly along at leisure" (and in safety). In which case, I would imagine that the Bike Train will no longer be needed. Or it could be revived elsewhere in the city ... Eastern Road / Edward Street, for example.

Was it? I didn't think it was meant as a commentary, I thought it was just a group of cyclists who wanted to ride along together and wear high visability jackets.

I joked about Fiveways earlier, but I find that the most dangerous junction in the City, only narrowly beating Montepellier Road/Montpellier Place junction which is brutal if you aren't paying attention. Do the council intend to improve either of these? I dread to think what they'd try and do with Fiveways.

 

[The Large One]

Was it? I didn't think it was meant as a commentary, I thought it was just a group of cyclists who wanted to ride along together and wear high visability jackets.

I joked about Fiveways earlier, but I find that the most dangerous junction in the City, only narrowly beating Montepellier Road/Montpellier Place junction which is brutal if you aren't paying attention. Do the council intend to improve either of these? I dread to think what they'd try and do with Fiveways.

I've no idea what you're about with Fiveways - it's a piece of piss, for cars and pedestrians.

It's controlled by traffic lights and pelican crossings, with slip lanes and filters.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Was it? I didn't think it was meant as a commentary, I thought it was just a group of cyclists who wanted to ride along together and wear high visability jackets.

I joked about Fiveways earlier, but I find that the most dangerous junction in the City, only narrowly beating Montepellier Road/Montpellier Place junction which is brutal if you aren't paying attention. Do the council intend to improve either of these? I dread to think what they'd try and do with Fiveways.

Haven't they been tinkering with Fiveways on and off for years? There are roadsigns there at the moment, warning of recent changes to the traffic signal phasing, are there not?

 

[The Large One]

Haven't they been tinkering with Fiveways on and off for years? There are roadsigns there at the moment, warning of recent changes to the traffic signal phasing, are there not?

What 'tinkering' there has been is new hardware going in - those 'eye-level' red and green man signals, that sort of thing.

Apart from that, it's the same three-way rotation systems it's been for yonks.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

On the subject of (controversial) Council-designed roadworks, can I raise a cheer for Woodingdean cross-roads? Having, many years ago, given up attempting to travel at busy times from Lewes to East Brighton via Woodingdean (opting for Lewes Road - Coombe Road as a better alternative), I opted for the Woodingdean route earlier this week and found the right-turn from the Falmer Road into Warren Road to be much, much easier than ever before.

I guess we thank the Albion for this.

 

[KNC]

I've no idea what you're about with Fiveways - it's a piece of piss, for cars and pedestrians.

It's controlled by traffic lights and pelican crossings, with slip lanes and filters.

Very similar to the Dials, then.

 

[KNC]

Why bring in party politics? The OP did, but this isn't about party politics.

Don't be naive, of course it is.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Don't be naive, of course it is.

I genuinely doubt that it is. I spent YEARS of my working life having to attend Council Highways Committee meetings that debated all sorts of highway schemes. And I can honestly say that most local politicians (of all political parties) were HOPELESS at identifying party political issues to bring into the arguments. Highway schemes do bring out strong opinions, of course, but my experience is that the arguments focus on perceived differences between the interests of pedestrians, cyclists, car drivers and nearby businesses, rather than on party policies.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I've no idea what you're about with Fiveways - it's a piece of piss, for cars and pedestrians.

It's controlled by traffic lights and pelican crossings, with slip lanes and filters.

That's interesting, as a pedestrian I feel really exposed up there. Admittedly, I don't go that way as often as the Dials so don't really know the timings of the lights too well, but I really don't ever feel comfortable as the traffic can literally come from anywhere at any time.

Haven't they been tinkering with Fiveways on and off for years? There are roadsigns there at the moment, warning of recent changes to the traffic signal phasing, are there not?

Those roadsigns will never be removed, those changes may have been a decade ago!

 

[The Large One]

Very similar to the Dials, then.

The Seven Dials junction is a mini-roundabout where cars are free to enter it is appropriate. There are independent crossings set back around 30 yards from each entry point to the junction which do not have any bearing on the next crossing, nor any others, nor access to the junction.

Fiveways is a traffic-light operated junction, where the crossings - a part of the junction - are dependent on the traffic-lights which control the junction.

So no, not really very similar.

 

[KNC]

Thanks for describing the Dials for me. I would imagine controlled access would be impossible at the Dials. As you know, six of the roads have lights. Both junctions have the similarity of a huge amount of traffic wishing to use it.

 

[The Large One]

Thanks for describing the Dials for me. I would imagine controlled access would be impossible at the Dials. As you know, six of the roads have lights. Both junctions have the similarity of a huge amount of traffic wishing to use it.

I was highlighting the difference; not just to you.

I agree that controlled access to the Dials would be a mare.

 

[HovaGirl]

Why bring in party politics? The OP did, but this isn't about party politics.

I only brought in party politics to highlight the ironic difference between the Green Party's perceived love of all things green (like trees they want to chop down) and protestors, normally thought to be the Greens' allies, who are trying to save trees. I suspect a lot more tree-lovers will be camping up the London Road before long, if the Green Party gets its way and completely rebuilds the layout of Gloucester Place/Grand Parade.

 

[HovaGirl]

You're doing what the Argus (and the OP) does - take one story, and try to tack on several others.

No, I wasn't. My take was on the differences between the Greens' credentials, and those of these protesting environmentalists.