herecomesaregular
We're in the pipe, 5 by 5
I would say it's more the job of the Fire & Rescue Service tbf?
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[News] Tragedy in Solihull
- Thread starter Lenny Rider
- Start date
Cornwallboy
Active member
- Oct 13, 2022
- 407
Fair point but I think whoever was on the scene first had a duty to try and save the lives of the children.
No, it IS their job. If my grandson fell through the ice and a police office was first on the scene and just stood there shaking their head saying "it's not my job" I would be, well, less than pleased. I would expect them to risk their life to save a small boy. Bloody hell I would, I couldn't live with myself otherwise.
Cornwallboy
Active member
- Oct 13, 2022
- 407
Exactly, very well said. I wonder if @Herr Tubthumper will treat this post with the 'f me' contempt my similar post received?
Cornwallboy
Active member
- Oct 13, 2022
- 407
A rattled Mr Pompous.
theboybilly
Well-known member
Yes it is reasonable. I, like most of my generation, were out from morning until dusk playing football and up to all sorts. I think the main thing was I was always in a group of some sorts so there was a degree of protection there. I didn't venture far, just around the block or to the local park a few hundred yards away. Never once batted an eyelid about it and only once, after staying out a little too long after dark, did I cause my dear Mum anguish (boy do I remember the tongue lashing) . You've got to let kids be kids otherwise they'll not experience any sort of worthwhile childhood.
You could say that about anybody who was on the scene though. It's literally not the policeman's job, in the sense that it's not what they're paid or trained for.
To be clear, that doesn't make the actions of the rescue services who do actually have that job any less brave or heroic, when they go into dangerous situations.
GT49er
Well-known member
So is risk assessment and Health and Safety. If they risk their lives, 1). it's over and above the call of duty, and 2). they'll probably get a bollocking from their superior for not making a risk assessment and ignoring Health and Safety!
Leekbrookgull
Well-known member
Tragic incidents have happened involving members of the public where there emergency services have failed to act immediately due waiting for authorisation, Sunday's dreadful events saw the emergency services at their best with members of those services acting first and thinking second. I only hope that none of those attempting to rescue those children are called before management to justify their actions.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
The problem is only one boy actually put his leg through the ice. The other two drowned or froze to death trying to save him. Unless you have the equipment to save them from the pond, you are just throwing your life away needlessly. The minimum needed is a rope.
Cornwallboy
Active member
- Oct 13, 2022
- 407
Surely trying to save lives should come before a risk assessment? To me it's f**k to the risk assessment and wade in and try and save the lives of little ones.
drew
Drew
If you were first on the scene what would you have done?
Cornwallboy
Active member
- Oct 13, 2022
- 407
I'm not employed as a Police officer as I have no desire to put my risk life to earn a living. I admire those that do work in the emergency services but I think if that is something you choose to do you have to accept the role carries an element of risk.
Curryisgreat
Active member
- Dec 9, 2010
- 277
f*** me.
Oh blimey, that's horrendous. How old was she?
Cornwallboy
Active member
- Oct 13, 2022
- 407
What do you mean by that?
Reasonable to let an 8 year old out around water, without an adult present? Each to their own, but I don't think so. And there was a 6 year old there too - were they with an adult?
Reading some of the other posts I see that asking questions has been deemed inappropriate by some. I played on an icy lake when I was young like most people my age in the area at the time. Regardless of whether or not there were adults there, this is of course an awful tragedy. Some of the first replies to this thread mention how they've had it drilled into them to stay away from frozen lakes etc. Is it a bad thing if we promote the concept that young children shouldn't be allowed to play near frozen bodies of water in the future, without adults present (and able to keep them off)? I don't want to offend the families of the children (and have no doubt they won't be reading my posts) and my questions/point of view is intended for us all to think about the safety of children, and perhaps reduce these dangers in the future.
I'm not sure it's helpful for us all to say RIP and never question anything.
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- Oct 20, 2022
- 4,890
Just to be clear the Met’s view on whether or not Policeman carry out rescue was stated after the Jack Susisanta case (the kid that drowned after being pursued by police) and it is not as black and white as some people are suggesting it is:
’According to the Health and Safety Executive, there are no standard guidelines as to how the police and emergency services should react. They must assess the risks and act accordingly. Police bosses also have a duty to implement measures to keep their staff safe.
The Met stated their approach to police rescue as being that police ‘may enter water after undertaking a fast-time assessment, taking into account, but not limited to the following: fitness levels, ability to swim, type of water hazards (including depth, water temperature, hidden and submerged hazards), the availability of rescue aids and the likely response time of other emergency services’.
There is no criminal liability for failing to rescue someone in danger:
exception: unless a bystander assumed the responsibility, created the dangerous situation themselves, or there was a contractual or statutory duty to act in which case, it would be argued failure to take action rendered the bystander criminally liable. However. In the UK, we have the equivalent of a Good Samaritan Law, that while it does not impose an obligation on bystanders to rescue, it protects people that are negligent in any rescue attempts from negligence or breach of their statutory duty. (see Social Action, Responsibility and Heroism Act 2015 )
No one, not even a Policeman, has an obligation to commit suicide.
Ps When I was an ‘unruly‘ 10 year old, I played with my older brother on railway embankments, walked along the parapets of railway bridges, swam in lakes, rivers, climbed to the top of 60ft trees, and climbed into all sorts of dangerous building sites, disused buildings and old tunnels. We knew the risks yet still ignored them - We survived the back of the knee slapping, the ’straight to bed with no tea’ and the TV bans if our parents found out but we were kids growing up, taking risks were rites of passage - enjoying the outdoors from morning to evening on long hot summer days. These days, you’re lucky to get kids a way from their mobile phones and ipads and when you do, perhaps the ‘knowledge of outdoor risks’ is less than it was 50 years ago because playing outside all day has become the exception not the norm. As kids, ie 2 and 3 year olds, the first safety course our parents undertook was to teach us to swim well!
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oldboyroy
Well-known member
Exactly, most of us God forbid, will never be put in that situation