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[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...



Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
I've always said that the current government is largely about 'punching down' - saying to impoverished or disadvantaged sections of society "We won't actually do anything to improve your wages, job security or public services, but we will crap hard on the people we think you dislike or blame for your hardships; immigrants, welfare 'scroungers', environmentalists, liberals, the Woke, etc. And enough of you will applaud us - even though we'll be crapping on you as well."
That just about sums it up.

In the meantime, the government is pandering to their sponsors, lining their pockets and not giving a single care in the world about the plebs.
Rishi Sunak, who hasn't got any working class friends

Ask yourself, why a multi-billionaire, wants a job paying £150K a year? Maybe doing away with inheritance tax, which will benefit his family by £300M
 

Peteinblack

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jun 3, 2004
3,560
Bath, Somerset.
That just about sums it up.

In the meantime, the government is pandering to their sponsors, lining their pockets and not giving a single care in the world about the plebs.
Rishi Sunak, who hasn't got any working class friends

Ask yourself, why a multi-billionaire, wants a job paying £150K a year? Maybe doing away with inheritance tax, which will benefit his family by £300M
The Tories' obsession with inheritance is yet more pure hypocrisy - how often do they tell the rest of us to "stand on your own two feet, work hard to earn your living, and don't rely on hand-outs"?
 

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
6,569
That just about sums it up.

In the meantime, the government is pandering to their sponsors, lining their pockets and not giving a single care in the world about the plebs.
Rishi Sunak, who hasn't got any working class friends

Ask yourself, why a multi-billionaire, wants a job paying £150K a year? Maybe doing away with inheritance tax, which will benefit his family by £300M
Given the ridiculous things I said when I was 21, i'll give him a pass at that. I'll also give him a pass, that he became PM for status and vanity rather than to increase his or his families wealth.

But the pot holes comments is just further causes me to sink deeper into despair. Just say the truth. Just say ....

A) we're doing it
B) we're not doing it
C) we're not sure, we're reviewing it, we'll let you know on X date

The constantly talking about something else when you're asked a question is infuriating
 

Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
Given the ridiculous things I said when I was 21, i'll give him a pass at that. I'll also give him a pass, that he became PM for status and vanity rather than to increase his or his families wealth.

But the pot holes comments is just further causes me to sink deeper into despair. Just say the truth. Just say ....

A) we're doing it
B) we're not doing it
C) we're not sure, we're reviewing it, we'll let you know on X date

The constantly talking about something else when you're asked a question is infuriating
That's two passes for today alone. How many passes have you given him in the last 10 months?
When do you finally stop giving him passes?
 


Stato

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2011
6,503
It always annoys me that interviewers don't act in the way most of us would when a politician avoids a question.

"Jameson: Sorry, I feel we’re going off topic here and I just want to keep it focused on HS2. We’re straight-talking people in the north*. It’s a yes or a no. Are you scrapping the HS2 line between Birmingham and Manchester?

Sunak: Like I said, I’m not speculating on future things. We’ve got spades in the ground right now and we’re getting on …"

In these situations, am I the only one, who is mentally screaming for the interviewer to respond with:

"Well that's an obvious 'Yes' then. If it was a 'No' you would have no reason to be avoiding the question. So, unless you would like to categorically state that this is not the case, we'll consider that answered and move on to my next question."

They never do it and I fail to understand why. Even when Paxman famously asked Michael Howard 12 times whether he threatened to overrule, he never said the obvious out loud: "So, I think that your responses have established beyond any reasonable doubt that you did threaten to overrule him and don't want to say so." I know that journalists would argue that the audience can read between the lines, but its pretty obvious that a good proportion of modern audiences don't.

* - Why do so many northerners have to self aggrandise about Northern stereotypes in all circumstances? Being straight-talking is not a northern / southern divide, its predominately a working class / middle class divide. So many seem to love perpetuating the myth that everybody in the north of England is a horny handed son of the soil and that everybody south of Watford lives in a fantasy London where even the binmen went to Eton.
 
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Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
6,569
I've got a theory about Sunak and HS2. My theory is that he's going to complete it all the way to Manchester and there was never an intention not to.

However, knowing he has a massive keynote speech coming up in Manchester and a record in government you could compare to Derby County's in the PL in 2008/09, he knows he needs to say something to get a standing ovation, before the next election.

So what he's done is leak to his favoured journalists the news that there was a prospect of abandoning the Manc leg, then along comes Rishi on his white charger and saves the day.

In exactly the same way of course that he saved us from compulsory car sharing and taxation on meat.

Please someone bounce this with some kind comment about my extraordinary powers of perception if my little theory is right, but maybe don't if it turns out to be complete bollocks.
 


A1X

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Sep 1, 2017
17,225
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Good for her for sticking to her point, asking really clear questions which can not be spun. He's a really cunning little toad in that interview, what a mistake to put him in front of people - they should go back to hiding him away. What a mess.
His performance in a General Election campaign is likely to end up being a disaster
 

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
6,569
It always annoys me that interviewers don't act in the way most of us would when a politician avoids a question.

"Jameson: Sorry, I feel we’re going off topic here and I just want to keep it focused on HS2. We’re straight-talking people in the north*. It’s a yes or a no. Are you scrapping the HS2 line between Birmingham and Manchester?

Sunak: Like I said, I’m not speculating on future things. We’ve got spades in the ground right now and we’re getting on …"

In these situations, am I the only one, who is mentally screaming for the interviewer to respond with:

"Well that's an obvious 'Yes' then. If it was a 'No' you would have no reason to be avoiding the question. So, unless you would like to categorically deny that this is not the case, we'll consider that answered and move on to my next question."

They never do it and I fail to understand why. Even when Paxman famously asked Michael Howard 12 times whether he threatened to overrule, he never said the obvious out loud: "So, I think that your responses have established beyond any reasonable doubt that you did threaten to overrule him and don't want to say so." I know that journalists would argue that the audience can read between the lines, but its pretty obvious that a good proportion of modern audiences don't.

* - Why do so many northerners have to self aggrandise about Northern stereotypes in all circumstances? Being straight-talking is not a northern / southern divide, its predominately a working class / middle class divide. So many seem to love perpetuating the myth that everybody in the north of England is a horny handed son of the soil and that everybody south of Watford lives in a fantasy London where even the binmen went to Eton.
I think the alarming truth to this is that if a journalist goes in with a two footed tackle of a questioning line, they simply don't get invited to do another interview. They need to strike the balance between looking tough and getting another interview this time next week.

The fact that only headlines or snippets are played out also doesn't encourage reasoned debate
 

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,473
Fiveways
It always annoys me that interviewers don't act in the way most of us would when a politician avoids a question.

"Jameson: Sorry, I feel we’re going off topic here and I just want to keep it focused on HS2. We’re straight-talking people in the north*. It’s a yes or a no. Are you scrapping the HS2 line between Birmingham and Manchester?

Sunak: Like I said, I’m not speculating on future things. We’ve got spades in the ground right now and we’re getting on …"

In these situations, am I the only one, who is mentally screaming for the interviewer to respond with:

"Well that's an obvious 'Yes' then. If it was a 'No' you would have no reason to be avoiding the question. So, unless you would like to categorically deny that this is not the case, we'll consider that answered and move on to my next question."

They never do it and I fail to understand why. Even when Paxman famously asked Michael Howard 12 times whether he threatened to overrule, he never said the obvious out loud: "So, I think that your responses have established beyond any reasonable doubt that you did threaten to overrule him and don't want to say so." I know that journalists would argue that the audience can read between the lines, but its pretty obvious that a good proportion of modern audiences don't.

* - Why do so many northerners have to self aggrandise about Northern stereotypes in all circumstances? Being straight-talking is not a northern / southern divide, its predominately a working class / middle class divide. So many seem to love perpetuating the myth that everybody in the north of England is a horny handed son of the soil and that everybody south of Watford lives in a fantasy London where even the binmen went to Eton.
I think they should say what you indicate there. What has wound me up even more for, ooo about 13 years, is that interviewers (in the BBC) allow them to parrot phrases like 'we're putting record spending into the x public service', when they're: implementing real-terms decreases; and, these public services often have increasing demand, with the NHS being the obvious one -- running at the rate of 4% a year. Yet they've been allowed to get away with it for more than a decade.
 


Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,473
Fiveways
I've got a theory about Sunak and HS2. My theory is that he's going to complete it all the way to Manchester and there was never an intention not to.

However, knowing he has a massive keynote speech coming up in Manchester and a record in government you could compare to Derby County's in the PL in 2008/09, he knows he needs to say something to get a standing ovation, before the next election.

So what he's done is leak to his favoured journalists the news that there was a prospect of abandoning the Manc leg, then along comes Rishi on his white charger and saves the day.

In exactly the same way of course that he saved us from compulsory car sharing and taxation on meat.

Please someone bounce this with some kind comment about my extraordinary powers of perception if my little theory is right, but maybe don't if it turns out to be complete bollocks.
There's one massive problem with this theory: those in the room for his party conference speech will be members of his party, and they're not going to give a standing ovation. If he delivered it to Mancunians he might, but he wouldn't because -- as has been pointed out a few posts back -- many of them are working class.
 

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
11,290
Cumbria
* - Why do so many northerners have to self aggrandise about Northern stereotypes in all circumstances? Being straight-talking is not a northern / southern divide, its predominately a working class / middle class divide. So many seem to love perpetuating the myth that everybody in the north of England is a horny handed son of the soil and that everybody south of Watford lives in a fantasy London where even the binmen went to Eton.
I've lived in the north since 1997 - and have a reputation amongst my 'northern' colleagues for speaking my mind, not beating about the bush, not being afraid to challenge and so on. All supposedly 'northern' characteristics.

I'd probably categorise myself / my family as middle-class as well - so even that divide falls away!
 

Tubby Mondays

Well-known member
Dec 8, 2005
3,009
A Crack House
I've got a theory about Sunak and HS2. My theory is that he's going to complete it all the way to Manchester and there was never an intention not to.

However, knowing he has a massive keynote speech coming up in Manchester and a record in government you could compare to Derby County's in the PL in 2008/09, he knows he needs to say something to get a standing ovation, before the next election.

So what he's done is leak to his favoured journalists the news that there was a prospect of abandoning the Manc leg, then along comes Rishi on his white charger and saves the day.

In exactly the same way of course that he saved us from compulsory car sharing and taxation on meat.

Please someone bounce this with some kind comment about my extraordinary powers of perception if my little theory is right, but maybe don't if it turns out to be complete bollocks.
Were Derby in the PL in 2008/09?
 


A1X

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Sep 1, 2017
17,225
Deepest, darkest Sussex
I think the alarming truth to this is that if a journalist goes in with a two footed tackle of a questioning line, they simply don't get invited to do another interview. They need to strike the balance between looking tough and getting another interview this time next week.

The fact that only headlines or snippets are played out also doesn't encourage reasoned debate
Exactly this. The only way to avoid that is to rise high enough up the tree to be someone who simply can't be ignored (Paxman / Maitlis / Guru-Murthy etc.)
 

Nobby

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2007
2,531
Yep. So even my sop to the gammon was a fake sop.

Some nasty bat phoned 606 the other day moaning that in her job she was paid per client and if 'they don't speak English' she didn't get paid. Unfortunately this went unchallenged. She later revealed that the only politician with any good 'solutions' is Nigel Something.

I am tired and bored of gormless lying racists.
I fear that there are a lot of them about. Hopefully not enough to make a difference this time.
It’s scary sitting on public transport watching others reading Sun, Mail and Express headlines which promote agendas of hate. 4 million readers being told what to think is still a lot of our voting public. At least circulation numbers are reducing generally
What the hell happened to this country. Has it always been this way.
And are there enough decent folk around to get rid of the racists?
 

Nobby Cybergoat

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
6,569
I fear that there are a lot of them about. Hopefully not enough to make a difference this time.
It’s scary sitting on public transport watching others reading Sun, Mail and Express headlines which promote agendas of hate. 4 million readers being told what to think is still a lot of our voting public. At least circulation numbers are reducing generally
What the hell happened to this country. Has it always been this way.
And are there enough decent folk around to get rid of the racists?
I think the happy answer is yes. But they've got to get out and vote and they've got to exercise the discipline to vote tactically when necessary.

The UK and the US are the same, when the sensible people are riled to action, the loons find they don't have the numbers. Not quite
 

chickens

Intending to survive this time of asset strippers
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 12, 2022
1,702
I think the happy answer is yes. But they've got to get out and vote and they've got to exercise the discipline to vote tactically when necessary.

The UK and the US are the same, when the sensible people are riled to action, the loons find they don't have the numbers. Not quite

I hope you’re right. Brexit + thirteen years of this brand of Conservatism has shaken my faith.
 


Si Gull

Way Down South
Mar 18, 2008
4,278
On top of the world

Braverman stirring up racial hatred by making false claims in a 'newspaper' comment piece.

Will she face consequences?

Will she f***. How she is still home secretary is beyond any rational explanation.
 

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