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[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...



WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 10, 2003
25,437
Multiculturalism isn't about people of different backgrounds and races all mixing together, as Braverman appears to have done. Multiculturalism is about keeping different races apart. Whether it's British expats in Spain living in little English-speaking communities and never learning Spanish, or whether it's Asian immigrants in the UK living in little Urdu-speaking communities and not adapting to UK customs.

Braverman looks at places like Nelson and believes multiculturalism hasn't worked, and there is a case to answer. You may still disagree, but shouting "racist! I hate her!" isn't the right way to disagree.

NSC's pet Burnley supporter defending a racist Home Secretary who has been rebuked by the UN. Well that was totally unexpected :lolol:
 

Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
Multiculturalism isn't about people of different backgrounds and races all mixing together, as Braverman appears to have done. Multiculturalism is about keeping different races apart. Whether it's British expats in Spain living in little English-speaking communities and never learning Spanish, or whether it's Asian immigrants in the UK living in little Urdu-speaking communities and not adapting to UK customs.

Braverman looks at places like Nelson and believes multiculturalism hasn't worked, and there is a case to answer. You may still disagree, but shouting "racist! I hate her!" isn't the right way to disagree.
How do you explain her rhetoric about women not being persecuted so cannot claim asylum nor anyone who is gay?

Braverman wouldn't be able to pin point Nelson on a map if you asked her.
Yes, I have been there.
 

Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
Maybe they won’t again….
The boundaries have been moved to include Meon etc which is rural, unfortunately.

As for a leadership challenge, I reckon Penny Mordaunt is ambitious enough to try again, but she is experienced in lying.
 


Barnet Seagull

Luxury Player
Jul 14, 2003
5,913
Falmer, soon...
Multiculturalism isn't about people of different backgrounds and races all mixing together, as Braverman appears to have done. Multiculturalism is about keeping different races apart. Whether it's British expats in Spain living in little English-speaking communities and never learning Spanish, or whether it's Asian immigrants in the UK living in little Urdu-speaking communities and not adapting to UK customs.

Braverman looks at places like Nelson and believes multiculturalism hasn't worked, and there is a case to answer. You may still disagree, but shouting "racist! I hate her!" isn't the right way to disagree.
I think Suella knows exactly what she's doing; its similar to what Merkel did in 2010 or so in Germany. She is playing to the right wing by using a term which is often misunderstood/misconstrued so as to be able to take a defensive opportunity to clarify should it be necessary. Ultimately its use is to provoke division.
I happen to agree with your understanding of the word which is why I'd talk about cultural integration rather than use it.
 

dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,171
How do you explain her rhetoric about women not being persecuted so cannot claim asylum nor anyone who is gay?

Braverman wouldn't be able to pin point Nelson on a map if you asked her.
Yes, I have been there.
How would you explain Corbyn's rhetoric about Jews being the scum of the earth? You wouldn't need to, because he didn't say it.

What Braverman said was that just being a woman, or being gay, wasn't enough to justify an asylum claim. You had to be individually persecuted. As you no doubt know, the UN Refugee Convention grants refugee status to members of persecuted groups. It isn't reasonable under that convention to declare women or all homosexuals (or, for that matter, all adulterers and female fornicators!) in all Muslim countries a "group", even though they do (as a rule) have tougher living conditions than we do.
 

dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,171
I think Suella knows exactly what she's doing; its similar to what Merkel did in 2010 or so in Germany. She is playing to the right wing by using a term which is often misunderstood/misconstrued so as to be able to take a defensive opportunity to clarify should it be necessary. Ultimately its use is to provoke division.
I happen to agree with your understanding of the word which is why I'd talk about cultural integration rather than use it.
Good point. But, of course, cultural integration is well and truly frowned upon in certain "anti-racist" circles. How often do we hear about cultural appropriation as being a bad thing? Cultural integration is the opposite of multiculturalism, not a synonym.
 


chickens

Intending to survive this time of asset strippers
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 12, 2022
1,675
Multiculturalism isn't about people of different backgrounds and races all mixing together, as Braverman appears to have done. Multiculturalism is about keeping different races apart. Whether it's British expats in Spain living in little English-speaking communities and never learning Spanish, or whether it's Asian immigrants in the UK living in little Urdu-speaking communities and not adapting to UK customs.

Braverman looks at places like Nelson and believes multiculturalism hasn't worked, and there is a case to answer. You may still disagree, but shouting "racist! I hate her!" isn't the right way to disagree.

What, this Nelson?


What’s wrong with it? Within the framework of our civil law, surely you’re not arguing against freedom of religious expression?

Persecution has never worked well anywhere, I don’t think we should be trialling it in small Lancashire towns.
 

Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 8, 2003
48,528
Faversham
Multiculturalism isn't about people of different backgrounds and races all mixing together, as Braverman appears to have done. Multiculturalism is about keeping different races apart. Whether it's British expats in Spain living in little English-speaking communities and never learning Spanish, or whether it's Asian immigrants in the UK living in little Urdu-speaking communities and not adapting to UK customs.

Braverman looks at places like Nelson and believes multiculturalism hasn't worked, and there is a case to answer. You may still disagree, but shouting "racist! I hate her!" isn't the right way to disagree.
That's a rather particular take on multiculturalism: "Multiculturalism seeks the inclusion of the views and contributions of diverse members of society while maintaining respect for their differences and withholding the demand for their assimilation into the dominant culture."

So that means allowing foringers to live in the community without forcing them to drink beer, eat fish and chips and watch east enders, and letting them pray to their weird Gods, and eat their weird food if they want.

What's wrong with that, exactly?
 

dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,171
What, this Nelson?


What’s wrong with it? Within the framework of our civil law, surely you’re not arguing against freedom of religious expression?

Persecution has never worked well anywhere, I don’t think we should be trialling it in small Lancashire towns.
Nothing's wrong with it. The difficulty with multiculturalism isn't that it gives people the right to live their lives as they choose, because liberal democracy does that too. It's that it separates the races rather than integrates them. You seem to think that the opposite of multiculturalism is persecution; it isn't.

 


Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
How would you explain Corbyn's rhetoric about Jews being the scum of the earth? You wouldn't need to, because he didn't say it.

What Braverman said was that just being a woman, or being gay, wasn't enough to justify an asylum claim. You had to be individually persecuted. As you no doubt know, the UN Refugee Convention grants refugee status to members of persecuted groups. It isn't reasonable under that convention to declare women or all homosexuals (or, for that matter, all adulterers and female fornicators!) in all Muslim countries a "group", even though they do (as a rule) have tougher living conditions than we do.
Classic whataboutery there. I am not a Corbyn supporter and think he was the wrong choice for Labour. However, I did find this.

The United Nations has condemned Suella Braverman for her speech.
As for her figure of 780million refugees, that is just plain lying, as a previous post I have said.

Asylum claims are all individual claims so if someone is trying to claim they are being persecuted, and they aren't, they will be deported. And they are deported. She cannot just state that women aren't being persecuted nor are gay people.
It may interest you to know, that once claims are processed, over 80% are granted. That's a big percentage of those coming here.
 

chickens

Intending to survive this time of asset strippers
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 12, 2022
1,675
Nothing's wrong with it. The difficulty with multiculturalism isn't that it gives people the right to live their lives as they choose, because liberal democracy does that too. It's that it separates the races rather than integrates them. You seem to think that the opposite of multiculturalism is persecution; it isn't.


It doesn’t enforce separation, it offers each individual the freedom to engage (or not) with other cultures within the same geographical space.

Personally, I’m bang alongside the idea of ensuring that people arriving here can learn the skills that will enable them to integrate if they choose to, but the difficulty of multiculturalism is also the beauty of it.

Forced integration isn’t multiculturalism, it is enforced cultural homogeneity. It says that you’re welcome here provided you dress like us, speak like us, and like what we like.

Multiculturalism relies on a degree of shared civil understanding. Problems occur when any group that forms part of society say “we have precedence here.” and assert dominance. Religion appears the most reliable starter of conflict, with politics coming a close second. Is multiculturalism tougher? Yes. Potentially more rewarding for all involved? Absolutely.

Too much time and effort is spent trying to divide us by what’s different, instead of celebrating what’s shared. We won’t know for generations yet what the results of multiculturalism will be.

Hopefully as a society we get better at understanding each other’s differences without feeling threatened, but there’s a very long way to go. Everyone feels threatened by the unknown, on all sides of the argument.
 


Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,464
Fiveways
Multiculturalism isn't about people of different backgrounds and races all mixing together, as Braverman appears to have done. Multiculturalism is about keeping different races apart. Whether it's British expats in Spain living in little English-speaking communities and never learning Spanish, or whether it's Asian immigrants in the UK living in little Urdu-speaking communities and not adapting to UK customs.

Braverman looks at places like Nelson and believes multiculturalism hasn't worked, and there is a case to answer. You may still disagree, but shouting "racist! I hate her!" isn't the right way to disagree.
People understand multiculturalism by both those definitions.
 


Nobby

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2007
2,524
No point engaging with him.
How do you explain her rhetoric about women not being persecuted so cannot claim asylum nor anyone who is gay?

Braverman wouldn't be able to pin point Nelson on a map if you asked her.
Yes, I have been there.
 

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