[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Nobby Cybergoat]

41% FFS, what goes on in their minds? Almost half of them would still vote Tory despite EVERYTHING that's happened in the last 10 years, but even worse, the last 5 years. It beggars belief.

What you also have to remember is that it will be much more than 41% in practice. People will act differently in the privacy of the voting booth than when they are asked. It's like on here. Barely anyone, other than a dwindling hardcore, will own up to voting tory, but the sussex area will still look like a sea of blue on a map the day after the next election.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

i'd go with 0 as a target. every billion borrowed means interest payments that are not going on services. about £80bn currently being paid.

And then if you start to run a surplus, you can invest in things which will yield in the long term.

But that ain't happening, not to the UK anytime soon

 

[Nobby]

Because, like The Bank of Englands Mann, quoted in the article, they are economic illiterates. Unfortunately, so are the "opposition", so dont hold your breath for any sunny uplands.

Oh NO!!

 

[Machiavelli]

i'd go with 0 as a target. every billion borrowed means interest payments that are not going on services. about £80bn currently being paid.

Good gawd. This is as bizarre an assertion as the MMT pedalled tiresomely by someone else on this thread. Zero government debt effectively means that everyone of us will have to hand back to the government all the notes and coins in our pockets. You do have to ask yourself why it is that, with a few odd exceptions, every country has a national debt.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Hang on hang on,
What happened to the coalition of chaos or the Guardian reading, tofu eating wokerati?
Are they not still a threat?

Tis a strange thing. Mrs T is a vegetarian and lefty but she doesn't like tofu, and if you called her woke she'd probably punch you hard in the face.

Sue Ellen is soooo out of touch.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Hang on hang on,
What happened to the coalition of chaos or the Guardian reading, tofu eating wokerati?
Are they not still a threat?

Ahem. *points to NSC subtitle*

And I’m VERY lethal with a wooden spork when my Quinoa isn’t done properly.

 

[beorhthelm]

Good gawd. This is as bizarre an assertion as the MMT pedalled tiresomely by someone else on this thread. Zero government debt effectively means that everyone of us will have to hand back to the government all the notes and coins in our pockets. You do have to ask yourself why it is that, with a few odd exceptions, every country has a national debt.

i dont see it would mean that, maybe you can show why (it is an interesting point)? money supply is from the Bank of England not government.
i did say a target, there are good reasons for running some debt like long term investment.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Incidentally, where is the chorus of tory supporters that were all over NSC a couple of years ago, crowing about how they *won* Brexit, and are *right behind Boris*, and all that bollocks? I realise that I have potty and *some others on ignore (and see from replies that potty still posts), but there were others . . . . are they spending more time with their money? Sorry, family. Family. That was it. NSC *taken over* by *woke lefties*?

They have run away, haven't they.

*Alright, quite a few. But so what?

You've probably got them all on 'ignore', no?

 

[Randy McNob]

As much as I despise the Tories, I don't think the dates quite support the idea that everything was fine with regards to national debt until they came to power.

Just going by your graph, the figures for c 2000 to 2008 are in the 25-35% range, then well up in 2009, and again in 2010. Given the time lag of policy hitting the numbers, I don't think they can really be held accountable until 2011 and by then there was a clear trend (as we know, started by the financial crisis of 2008).

I agree it's a slightly crude yardstick, however, Cameron came to power on a ticket to reduce the deficit and used that to inflict 10 years of austerity on us.

Also, last November we spent 7.3bn on interest payments - a record. To put that into perspective it would cost us 4bn to give Nurses and other NHS workers the pay rise they need - almost HALF the interest payment for JUST ONE MONTH. The cost of Tory failure

 

[Nobby]

Tis a strange thing. Mrs T is a vegetarian and lefty but she doesn't like tofu, and if you called her woke she'd probably punch you hard in the face.

Sue Ellen is soooo out of touch.

Whisper it softly - but I don't even know what Tofu is
I assumed it was a sort of Toblerone

 

[ken tiler]

i dont see it would mean that, maybe you can show why? money supply is from the Bank of England not government.
i did say a target, there are good reasons for running some debt like long term investment.

“Tiresome “ but correct MMT advocate here. Firstly, The Bank of England is a branch of government and secondly it is legally required to issue money for government expenditure when instructed to do so by Parliament.

 

[Machiavelli]

i dont see it would mean that, maybe you can show why (it is an interesting point)? money supply is from the Bank of England not government.
i did say a target, there are good reasons for running some debt like long term investment.

For two reasons:
1, you're assuming that the BoE and Treasury are utterly distinct entities, they overlap
2, money is not a 'thing', it's a relation, as soon as money (or credit) is created, so is debt.

 

[MJsGhost]

I agree it's a slightly crude yardstick, however, Cameron came to power on a ticket to reduce the deficit and used that to inflict 10 years of austerity on us.

Also, last November we spent 7.3bn on interest payments - a record. To put that into perspective it would cost us 4bn to give Nurses and other NHS workers the pay rise they need - almost HALF the interest payment for JUST ONE MONTH. The cost of Tory failure

Don't get me wrong, I don't think spending billions on interest is a good thing, I just don't think that graph supports your point that the debt going up correlates with the Tories coming into power.

 

[Randy McNob]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think spending billions on interest is a good thing, I just don't think that graph supports your point that the debt going up correlates with the Tories coming into power.

Of course it does. you can debate on the threshold of where the impact of Conservative policy was actually was felt from after the point they came to power but the current % is around 90% - 100%, far higher than before they were elected - on a manifesto that it would decrease

 

[The Clamp]

I imagine the Tory bastards gave up on trying to make any improvements to anything a long, long time ago.

Their entire objective is to hang onto power for as long as possible to suckle on the taxpayers teat until they are wrenched from the breast with the nipple clenched between their teeth.

Build a bonfire. Throw the fuckers on.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Of course it does. you can debate on the threshold of where the impact of Conservative policy was actually was felt from after the point they came to power but the current % is around 90% - 100%, far higher than before they were elected - on a manifesto that it would decrease

View attachment 161854

If I look purely at that graph, I'd read it as the deficit increasing significantly around 2008 (financial crisis), being gradually reduced up to 2015-ish, and then exploding again around 2019/20 (covid).
Whether the policies used to reduce the deficit between 2010 and 2015 were the most effective possible is another debate entirely, but the graph does show it reduced over those 5years.

 

[beorhthelm]

For two reasons:
1, you're assuming that the BoE and Treasury are utterly distinct entities, they overlap
2, money is not a 'thing', it's a relation, as soon as money (or credit) is created, so is debt.

fair point 1. point 2, i have a silver crown coin that says money can be a "thing". i get the money is debt/credit, and can see where that could lead. not sure government debt (vs private debt) must exist for money supply to exist.

 

[sparkie]

The Covid Enquiry is centering on Eat Out to Help Out with criticism for Sunak as Chancellor. I criticised it on the Covid thread and was called stupid (or similar).

Eat Out to Die Out was a disaster. They should have just given the money to the restaurants directly and not actually required people to go and pass on and catch Covid in them.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think spending billions on interest is a good thing, I just don't think that graph supports your point that the debt going up correlates with the Tories coming into power.

In the UK, our situation is dictated by the global economy. The financial crash was caused by sub prime lending - in the US.

Governments here can make things a bit better or a bit worse.

The tories grasped the opportunity offered by the crash to cut public spending (nasty socialist public spending) and blame it on Labour (when in fact Gordon Brown made the best possible fix after the crash and got no credit - because he isn't a grandstanding self-serving twat).

Brown was flawed in other ways, but the tories made hay with a chance to turn back the clock.

 

[rogersix]

Man of the people, Sunak, enjoys another trip in an RAF helicopter. As he himself said a fortnight ago, people are over caring how rich someone is….

Sunak takes RAF chopper to Dover, just over an hour away by train | Rishi Sunak | The Guardian

Prime minister shows his fondness for helicopters again a week after flying in one to his Yorkshire constituency

amp.theguardian.com

It’s truly remarkable how much he is over caring how poor people are.

Use the bloody lot of them as shark bait.

it may be a bit of a no no for him to be seen using the train atm