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[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...



Wokeworrier

Active member
Aug 7, 2021
334
West sussex/travelling
They didn't seem to lay a glove on him from what I saw. I reckon he'll get away with his lies.
Probably, because there is no cast iron proof/smoking gun, showing he deliberately misled parliament. :shrug:

If they find he did (which I doubt), then they are saying numerous people in government and the civil service were lying/ involved in a cover up.
 




Hugo Rune

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Feb 23, 2012
21,950
Brighton
Probably, because there is no cast iron proof/smoking gun, showing he deliberately misled parliament. :shrug:

If they find he did (which I doubt), then they are saying numerous people in government and the civil service were lying/ involved in a cover up.
You are making the mistake of assuming they have to prove he misled Parliament beyond all reasonable doubt, they don’t.

The simply need to consider, whether it is reasonable for the person who made the rules and read them out on TV etc to know them. The obvious answer is yes. He must have (like many times in his career before) lied. They don’t need a smoking gun.

He is toast.
 


Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
12,227
Cumbria
Probably, because there is no cast iron proof/smoking gun, showing he deliberately misled parliament. :shrug:

If they find he did (which I doubt), then they are saying numerous people in government and the civil service were lying/ involved in a cover up.
Yes. I think it more likely that they may find he 'recklessly' misled parliament. The final set of questions were all about 'why did you rely on a media adviser for your assurances, if you were taking 'due care' you should have asked a lawyerly adviser or a senior civil servant'. Harriet Harman said his assurances were flimsy - which I thought was quite telling of how they were thinking.
 


Hamilton

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Jul 7, 2003
12,590
Brighton
Probably, because there is no cast iron proof/smoking gun, showing he deliberately misled parliament. :shrug:

If they find he did (which I doubt), then they are saying numerous people in government and the civil service were lying/ involved in a cover up.
That’s a desperate defence you are putting up there. Conjuring up other ‘witnesses’ to say that they were 90% sure that Simon Case gave assurances that Simon Case says he did not give and where there is no minuted evidence, is not a cast iron defence.

He’s been found alone with his hands in the cookie jar and now he’s trying to say that it was the other kids what stole the biscuits.
 


A1X

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Sep 1, 2017
18,369
Deepest, darkest Sussex
 




rogersix

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2014
7,919
Probably, because there is no cast iron proof/smoking gun, showing he deliberately misled parliament. :shrug:

If they find he did (which I doubt), then they are saying numerous people in government and the civil service were lying/ involved in a cover up.
would your preference be, bungle back as tory leader, once starmer has vanquished sunak?
 


Wokeworrier

Active member
Aug 7, 2021
334
West sussex/travelling
what do you think should happen to clampy for his, "plough them all into a ditch" comment?

On one level its rather sad that a grown man can act in a similar way to a child, continually saying something naughty trying to provoke a reaction.

On a more serious note, its well worth remembering what happened to David Amess as well as other politicians. We can all passionately disagree about politics without feeling the need to continually use language easily seen as condoning violence.
 


Rdodge30

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2022
475
So, on 1) by your own admission Starmer's comment was that he wouldn't have used those words, ergo he has commented. On 3) he said in Parliament they were wrong and it was unimplementable. He doesn't need to resay it because a footballer did a tweet. And on 2) the BBC will be impartial under a Labour Government because that's the raison d'etre.

The Lineker affair was about GL, the BBC and Braverman. No one else.
Quite. My view is simply that he should have aggressively taken control of the narrative and would have benefited from it politically.

Instead he has simply commented on a Gary Lineker story. Not a disaster for the party but just a bit meh! The unnerving feeling I’m getting is that he has no clue what to do on immigration and for all that the election is 13/14 months away, I find that concerning.


Incidentally I follow betting on horseracing and politics - I restrict myself to about half a dozen football bets a year but follow horseracing religiously and politics intently.

Before Lineker week
Next GE betting:

Labour most seats: 1/6 odds on everywhere - no deviation amongst bookmakers

Conservative most seats: some 4/1 but almost all 7/2

After Lineker week
Next GE betting

Labour most seats: some 1/6 mostly 1/5 and 2/9 available with 2 firms

Conservative most seats: still 7/2 available but 3/1 mostly 14/5 in a place

Only small differences but noticeable if you’re looking. Poor week for Labour and I posted how I did because I just feel that these are golden opportunities, the Conservatives are constantly fumbling the ball and I want Starmer to take control of tge narrative.

I remember when Cameron won the leadership of the Tory party he almost immediately put together several policy working parties headed by senior Conservatives on individual policy areas. So by that measure I’m surprised that whatever the headline of the week be it NHS strikes Immigration or anything else that the Opposition front bench are not all out putting forward the 3point plans for the policies they intend to implement when they are in power.

To me they simply look like opposition not Government in waiting
 




The Clamp

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Jan 11, 2016
24,753
West is BEST
I’ve seen the “highlights” and would will try and see the whole thing in full later. So far it seems like Boris Johnson doing what Boris Johnson has always done;

Lie, lie and lie again. Like most Tory’s these days.

Ditch them all into a plough.
 
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rogersix

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2014
7,919
On one level its rather sad that a grown man can act in a similar way to a child, continually saying something naughty trying to provoke a reaction.

On a more serious note, its well worth remembering what happened to David Amess as well as other politicians. We can all passionately disagree about politics without feeling the need to continually use language easily seen as condoning violence.
it looks more like an expression of frustration in a humouress manor, and you come across as a bit snowflakey?

is that fair?
 






The Clamp

Well-known member
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Jan 11, 2016
24,753
West is BEST
it looks more like an expression of frustration in a humouress manor, and you come across as a bit snowflakey?

is that fair?
It is a reference to the cry of the Luddite’s when machination began to erode livelihoods in rural England.

As you say, a humorous slight against the government of the day.

Perhaps one for the more aware on here.

But if it offends, I’ll happily cease using it. No harm intended, no need for personal attacks or thread derailment.

Down with the Tory’s. Boo! Hiss! and out with the blighters!
 




rogersix

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2014
7,919
It is a reference to the cry of the Luddite’s when machination began to erode livelihoods in rural England.

As you say, a humorous slight against the government of the day.

Perhaps one for the more aware on here.

But if it offends, I’ll happily cease using it. No harm intended, no need for personal attacks or thread derailment.

Down with the Tory’s. Boo! Hiss! and out with the blighters!
it is an amusing turn of phrase, i like it. cheers for the info
 




Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
12,227
Cumbria
So it’s a case of “if I’m guilty so is everyone else”. Someone should explain to him that no one likes a grass.
Especially when he starts by saying that one of the advisers he asked has requested not to be identified. And then immediately says 'she...' - which narrows down the possibilities hugely.
 


The Clamp

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Jan 11, 2016
24,753
West is BEST
Especially when he starts by saying that one of the advisers he asked has requested not to be identified. And then immediately says 'she...' - which narrows down the possibilities hugely.
I find it depressingly amusing when these thirsty little twerps suck up to Johnson in order to further their career/profit margin/influence, thinking they are going to be the one that doesn’t get burned.
Yet one by one, he very publicly chucks them all under the bus*.








*can I use that expression? It does seem a little violent.
 


rogersix

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2014
7,919
I find it depressingly amusing when these thirsty little twerps suck up to Johnson in order to further their career/profit margin/influence, thinking they are going to be the one that doesn’t get burned.
Yet one by one, he very publicly chucks them all under the bus*.








*can I use that expression? It does seem a little violent.
they are systematically, ploughing themselves into a ditch
 






Rdodge30

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2022
475
I see you posting some quite 'interesting' bits and bobs on this thread, but I am wondering why you think the above?
YouGov poll Feb 2023:

Do you think there is too much immigration in the UK

Yes: 56%

No: about 10% I think if memory serves

The rest made up of About Right and I don’t know

Sort of puts it in perspective when people on here claim anyone who is opposed to more immigration is a white racist.
 


The Clamp

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 11, 2016
24,753
West is BEST
YouGov poll Feb 2023:

Do you think there is too much immigration in the UK

Yes: 56%

No: about 10% I think if memory serves

The rest made up of About Right and I don’t know

Sort of puts it in perspective when people on here claim anyone who is opposed to more immigration is a white racist.
Hmm, 56%

Rather similar figure to another opinion poll taken a few years ago.

Now, does it refer to the rate of immigration or the number of immigrants already here? If it’s rate of immigration, the result means that the majority of people polled are either happy with the rate of immigration or don’t know.

Details are important here.
 


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