[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[The Clamp]

I’m not certain of this emerging narrative; “Brexit done well would have worked, it’s Johnson that’s messed it up”

Nope. You don’t get off that easily. Brexit was always an appalling idea, headed for catastrophe from the very beginning. Those who voted leave carry a lot of the blame. It’s why the country is in this unstoppable decline.

 

[beorhthelm]

I'm assuming an EEA / EFTA type Brexit. Which I do genuinely believe is a position the majority of people in this country could get on board with provided it was sold properly. Sure there'd be the more militant edge on either side who wouldn't like it. I could get on board with it, for example, and I was firmly in the Remain camp.

just a shame Liberals, Tiggers, SNP voted against or abstained from the custom union option. 3 votes in it for a completely different direction, which most the leavers would have accepted as the decision of parliament.

 

[rogersix]

Ah, Boyle, the champion of jokes about the disabled makes a political statement.

good defence

 

[MJsGhost]

I’m not certain of this emerging narrative; “Brexit done well would have worked, it’s Johnson that’s messed it up”

Nope. You don’t get off that easily. Brexit was always an appalling idea, headed for catastrophe from the very beginning. Those who voted leave carry a lot of the blame. It’s why the country is in this unstoppable decline.

If two negatives make a positive, does it mean that putting a weapons-grade bungle**** in charge of a fvcking stupid idea was actually the only way it might have worked?

 

[WATFORD zero]

I’m not certain of this emerging narrative; “Brexit done well would have worked, it’s Johnson that’s messed it up”

Nope. You don’t get off that easily. Brexit was always an appalling idea, headed for catastrophe from the very beginning. Those who voted leave carry a lot of the blame. It’s why the country is in this unstoppable decline.

This

There were three options

1/ The economically suicidal one - No Deal
2/ The economically dire 'fudge' one that can't actually be implemented in Northern Ireland or for our own Border Controls - Johnson's Good deal
3/ The one where we stick to the rules defined by the EU in order to trade but have no input - The Stay in the single market (EEA) one

No 1 was threatened, No 3 was famously dismissed as the 'Vassal state' solution long before negotiations with the EU even started and No 2 was the Good deal that everyone knew they were voting for

It really is that simple

Having said that, if I had the choice of being up to my waistline on shit or up to my nostrils in shit, it would be EEA all the way for me

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1536672407657881600[/tweet]

 

[Audax]

I’m not certain of this emerging narrative; “Brexit done well would have worked, it’s Johnson that’s messed it up”

Nope. You don’t get off that easily. Brexit was always an appalling idea, headed for catastrophe from the very beginning. Those who voted leave carry a lot of the blame. It’s why the country is in this unstoppable decline.

Brexit was always the weaker choice when it comes to the question of being in or out of the EU.

But ... we are where we are. Brexit was triggered. Given that Remain was taken off the table, we should have been looking for the best way to do Brexit. What we got is a dog's dinner that even the dog won't eat. Brexit done well, EEA + EFTA, that could have been made to work. A lot of the benefits of being in the EU, with most of the negatives that drove the Brexit vote in the first place dealt with. Johnson and his lapdogs chose to pursue a hard Brexit instead of taking the sensible approach, and it's cost us big time. Having said that, May was headed down the same road as well. Although in her case I believe it was because her position in Parliament was so weak she was forced to bow to the hard Brexiteer wing of the party instead of being able to go find that workable compromise in the middle.

 

[WATFORD zero]

just a shame Liberals, Tiggers, SNP voted against or abstained from the custom union option. 3 votes in it for a completely different direction, which most the leavers would have accepted as the decision of parliament.

What vote would this be ? As Theresa May had already ruled out the customs union in her first set of red lines, prior to negotiations even opening with the EU and way before any votes on any proposed solutions (none of which included staying in the customs union)

 

[studio150]

I’m not certain of this emerging narrative; “Brexit done well would have worked, it’s Johnson that’s messed it up”

Nope. You don’t get off that easily. Brexit was always an appalling idea, headed for catastrophe from the very beginning. Those who voted leave carry a lot of the blame. It’s why the country is in this unstoppable decline.

They seem unsure which line to take currently, its either that Johnson messed it up, or its far too early to see the benefits of Brexit.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1536672407657881600[/tweet]

So much for it being a deterrent. 200 people arrived today at Dover.

 

[Is it PotG?]

So much for it being a deterrent. 200 people arrived today at Dover.

That's a good thing, of course?

 

[rogersix]

Johnson is good at campaigning (that's all he does) but crap at governing. Starmer is and would be the opposite if he won an election

We need to decide what type of country we want to be, if we continue on this path we will see a further decline as a nation (that is if the nation survives as an entity)

i think that in coming years, the three celtic nations will opt out of the uk and rejoin the eu. that will give the tories a huge majority of "safe" seats in england. this will be the time for naval gazing and feeling sorry for ourselves. as you say, we have to decide what type of a country we wish to be. things will get a lot worse before they get better, ah well, collective responsibilty, and all that!

 

[Is it PotG?]

i think that in coming years, the three celtic nations will opt out of the uk and rejoin the EU. that will give the tories a huge majority of "safe" seats in england. this will be the time for naval gazing and feeling sorry for ourselves. as you say, we have to decide what type of a country we wish to be. things will get a lot worse before they get better, ah well, collective responsibilty, and all that!

What would they bring to the party for the EU to welcome them with open arms?

 

[Papa Lazarou]

What would they bring to the party for the EU to welcome them with open arms?

Do they have to bring something? Scotland has a LOT of renewable energy?

 

[Is it PotG?]

Do they have to bring something?

I'm sure the EU will not just be there for handouts, they will want some input.

'Despite the moves towards producing more clean energy in Scotland, more than three-quarters (76.5%) of the country's energy consumption came from oil and gas in 2019.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61437156

 

[drew]

Johnson is good at campaigning (that's all he does) but crap at governing. Starmer is and would be the opposite if he won an election

We need to decide what type of country we want to be, if we continue on this path we will see a further decline as a nation (that is if the nation survives as an entity)

Sorry, Johnson was good at campaigning but not anymore. If you promise people what they want and tell them things you know they want to hear that will persuade dumb people to vote for you. However, even dumb people learn to realise the difference between what BJ promised and what has been delivered! As I understand it his name is barely mentioned in Tiverton. He will claim he is good at electioneering because that's all he's got in his pocket but people can see through that.

 

[rogersix]

What would they bring to the party for the EU to welcome them with open arms?

an inclusive positive mental attitide

 

[Is it PotG?]

an inclusive positive mental attitide

That'll do the trick, just the ticket.

 

[rogersix]

That'll do the trick, just the ticket.

why has the eu accepted all of the smaller nations?

 

[Is it PotG?]

why has the eu accepted all of the smaller nations?

I don't know, pray tell the details of their entry requirements.

In the meantime, I wish you well in your quest to break up the Union.