[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[rogersix]

I’m sorry if you thought I meant he was sitting there literally counting out money, but that’s on you.

how long do you think it takes him to say to his minions, "i've identified a tax loophole and i want it closed. make it so!"?

more than two years?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

He’d be gone by now if that was the case.

He knows that Sunak wants to put a Gove-style knife in his back so has made sure that his family tax situation was leaked. Johnson is utterly ruthless when it comes to his career. Any Tory sticking his head above the parapet will get the same treatment as the chancellor with all their skeletons being emptied from the closet.

Boris the Liar is going nowhere which is horrific for the country in the short term but possibly the opposite in the long term.

Indeed.

The main reason that Cummins walked was that Johnson made it clear to him that he would do things that are not in the UK's interest if this benefitted his own; for example undermining or removing talented people (such as Cummins, in the mind of Cummins) who put the greater good above doing what best suits Johnson's personal interests and cachet.

I'm not suggesting that Cummins walked for noble reasons either, but it became clear to Cummins that Cummins would be jettisoned like a used jonnie if Johnson considered that the jettisoning would benefit Johnson, so he elected to leave on his own terms.

Sacking people in the best interest of the nation is completely different. That's what statesmen do.

And yet Johnson squares the circle by conflating his own best interests with those of the nation. I suspect he considers he is the embodiment of the nation. The ultimate expression of entitlement.

He's an exceptional piece of work - the ultimate psychopath. I can attest to his powers because, caught unawares, even I can still smile at some of his jokes, and find myself admiring the fluency of his chutzpa. In contrast, Starmer sounds dull, ernest and very, very unappealing.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

how long do you think it takes him to say to his minions, "i've identified a tax loophole and i want it closed. make it so!"?

more than two years?

Two years of normal times or two years we’ve just had?

How much normal policy was brought in and finalised during that same time? Ever major debate seemed to be Covid.

 

[rogersix]

Two years of normal times or two years we’ve just had?

How much normal policy was brought in and finalised during that same time? Ever major debate seemed to be Covid.

it's just tax lawyers wording the law. the only thing that has stopped him doing it, is his will. it really is that simple. therefore, as chancellor, he is responsible

 

[dazzer6666]

I’m afraid that while I hold no truck with this idea that anyone who votes Conservative is automatically a wrong ‘un, I do feel that between Johnson, Kwarteng, Patel, Sunak, Rees-Mogg and of course the inimitable Grayling, anyone who votes again for this current Conservative government, having witnessed what we’ve witnessed over the past few years, can either hold no claim to decency or probity, or simply pays no attention to politics and would continue to vote Conservative if a pig in lipstick was wearing the blue rosette.

I know many very decent Conservative voters unhappy at the naked self-interest of the current incumbents, and who feel entirely politically homeless. They fear Labour because that’s been drummed into them since the 70s and they fear the Corbyn influence is still strong. Post Brexit the Lib Dems seemed to abandon their belief in democracy. They want to vote “Old” Conservative, but not for the jackals who currently own/run the party. The current tone and approach of the party has definitely not gone unnoticed by a big chunk of its voter base, and it seems to be progressing along the lines of the US right, who are batsh1t insane. I don’t think those who are enabling this are doing themselves the favour they think they are, or fully understand the long-term consequences for our democracy.

I’m possibly somewhere in your description, but I have no fear of Labour or Corbyn influence. It’s more that I’ve seen nothing at all from Starmer and his team that indicates they’re any more competent than Johnson and his cronies. In the worst period of governmental cronyism in my lifetime, as an opposition they have been utterly useless - missing dozens of open goals they’ve been presented with. Also, dismissing con voters as ‘indecent’ or ‘lacking probity’ is borderline offensive.

I’m still ticking ‘none of the above’ because they are all shit.

 

[rogersix]

Two years of normal times or two years we’ve just had?

How much normal policy was brought in and finalised during that same time? Ever major debate seemed to be Covid.

are you one of those toryboys that are desperate to be liked, and therefore, would be mortified if people found out that you vote for the nasty party?

 

[beorhthelm]

how long do you think it takes him to say to his minions, "i've identified a tax loophole and i want it closed. make it so!"?

more than two years?

as most if not all tax loopholes are the unintended, secondary effects of tax policy, an awful lot more than two years. and thats before the loopholes are arent loopholes at all, but intended policy people just dont like.

loopholes real or imaginary arent the problem. the original point was the state of public finances, and a fair point Sunak needs to focus. we've just seen a conservative chancellor uncharacteristically pump an additional 370bn into the economy. thats a big problem and wasnt created intentionally other than in response demanded to do something in extraordinary circumstances. those circumstances created supply shocks and commodity price rises. off the back of this we've had a energy price crisis (due to lack of wind energy and insufficent gas stored across europe), compounded by war in europe. excess spending, rising energy and commodity prices are hugely inflationary, so thats now going to be a large problem too. i hope Sunak is up to the job, i dont think he'll get it all right but there's crap all talent on the bench and the opposition dont have a clue either (just spend more... which increases inflation). just hoping the global macro-economics rights itself in next few months because we're heading for the rocks.

 

[rogersix]

as most if not all tax loopholes are the unintended, secondary effects of tax policy, an awful lot more than two years. and thats before the loopholes are arent loopholes at all, but intended policy people just dont like.

loopholes real or imaginary arent the problem. the original point was the state of finances, we've just seen a conservative chancellor uncharacteristically pump an additional 370bn into the economy. thats a big problem to fix and wasnt created intentionally other than in response demanded to do something in extraordinary circumstances. off the back of this we've had a energy price crisis (due to lack of wind energy and insufficent gas storage across europe), compounded by war in europe. excess spending, rising energy and commodity prices are hugely inflationary, so thats now going to be a problem too. i hope Sunak is up to the job, i dont think he'll get it all right but there's crap all talent on the bench and the opposition dont have a clue either (just spend more... which increases inflation). just hopeing the global macro-economics rights itself in next few months because we're heading for the rocks.

that's as maybe; but, is the chancellor responsible for the tax laws?

 

[usernamed]

I’m possibly somewhere in your description, but I have no fear of Labour or Corbyn influence. It’s more that I’ve seen nothing at all from Starmer and his team that indicates they’re any more competent than Johnson and his cronies. In the worst period of governmental cronyism in my lifetime, as an opposition they have been utterly useless - missing dozens of open goals they’ve been presented with. Also, dismissing con voters as ‘indecent’ or ‘lacking probity’ is borderline offensive.

I’m still ticking ‘none of the above’ because they are all shit.

“None of the above” is a perfectly valid selection. Personally, I currently view Starmer as the “least worst” option, purely because Labour seem (comparatively) honest, but that says more about the breathtaking cynicism of the current Conservative Party. I don’t doubt there’s some rotten fruit within Labour, we just don’t know where it all is yet.

There is no mainstream political party that I could currently happily vote for. My main concern is that I find any administration only seems to increase in rottenness the longer it has in power, and the Conservatives have already held power for too long unchecked.

I may well find myself spoiling my ballot paper at the next election. To clarify, I made it clear in my post that I absolutely don’t consider traditional Conservative voters to lack probity, but any individual who follows politics and knowingly chooses to re-elect THIS Conservative government absolutely lacks probity. I don’t think there should be a question of offence there, it would simply be true.

 

[beorhthelm]

that's as maybe; but, is the chancellor responsible for the tax laws?

absolutly. which law in the >17000 pages of tax laws do you think should get priority? obviously there's the one in the news, which is a intended to make a reasonable system for foreigners living here with investments and assets abroad (i'm sure you'd agree taking tax revenue from foreign nations where earnt would be unfair). what people want, is a new rule that chancellors expect to pay as much tax as is possible, another page to the tax law. this wont solve a great deal of problems in public finances, but make everyone feel better for a second.

 

[drew]

absolutly. which law in the >17000 pages of tax laws do you think should get priority? obviously there's the one in the news, which is a intended to make a reasonable system for foreigners living here with investments and assets abroad (i'm sure you'd agree taking tax revenue from foreign nations where earnt would be unfair). what people want, is a new rule that chancellors expect to pay as much tax as is possible, another page to the tax law. this wont solve a great deal of problems in public finances, but make everyone feel better for a second.

It's not unreasonable for people living here and benefitting from our services and infrastructure should contribute to it. I'd be happy for people that are genuinely non doms to pay tax in the country where the income was earned and then, if that is less than what they'd pay here, they pay the difference.

The problem is the non genuine 'non dom' status. Sunak's wife was claiming India was her homeland which seems a bit at odds with the fact they both had green cards for the USA? Same goes for Javid who claimed non dom status (believed to be Pakistan) when he was a banker. A bit odd when you consider he was born in Rochdale and, according to his Wiki entry, has never lived in Pakistan, the only other country he has lived in being the US!!

Both Sunak and Javid have no moral compass and should not be anywhere near having an influence on our legislature!!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

absolutly. which law in the >17000 pages of tax laws do you think should get priority? obviously there's the one in the news, which is a intended to make a reasonable system for foreigners living here with investments and assets abroad (i'm sure you'd agree taking tax revenue from foreign nations where earnt would be unfair). what people want, is a new rule that chancellors expect to pay as much tax as is possible, another page to the tax law. this wont solve a great deal of problems in public finances, but make everyone feel better for a second.

Putting it bluntly, it is cheating. People in high public office should be trustworthy, but when found out should have the decency to resign.

 

[The Clamp]

This will all come crashing down around the Tory’s ears at some point. It’s unsustainable and history isn’t kind to those who cheat their way through power.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

are you one of those toryboys that are desperate to be liked, and therefore, would be mortified if people found out that you vote for the nasty party?

Nah, however I would class myself as someone that wouldn’t vote Labour again.

Considering the options are awful I doubt I’ll vote moving forward.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Nah, however I would class myself as someone that wouldn’t vote Labour again.

Considering the options are awful I doubt I’ll vote moving forward.

Same here.

 

[Lever]

The problem is in the undemocratic, outdated voting system. I am for any Party that seeks to provide a fairer alternative..... because at the moment we tend to vote negatively to prevent our least awful option getting in.

The most awful option is Johnston and I am sorry to say not voting is a passive endorsement of this mendacious government and its criminal Brexit policy...

 

[WATFORD zero]

Can I apply for non Dom status on my pension ?

Well I would think that (and getting a lot of your assets into offshore tax havens) would have been the sensible thing to do, if you were going to vote for Johnson's ideas twice in the last few years. It's what Sunak, Javid and most other sensible Johnson supporters did

 

[Lever]

“None of the above” is a perfectly valid selection. Personally, I currently view Starmer as the “least worst” option, purely because Labour seem (comparatively) honest, but that says more about the breathtaking cynicism of the current Conservative Party. I don’t doubt there’s some rotten fruit within Labour, we just don’t know where it all is yet.

There is no mainstream political party that I could currently happily vote for. My main concern is that I find any administration only seems to increase in rottenness the longer it has in power, and the Conservatives have already held power for too long unchecked.

I may well find myself spoiling my ballot paper at the next election. To clarify, I made it clear in my post that I absolutely don’t consider traditional Conservative voters to lack probity, but any individual who follows politics and knowingly chooses to re-elect THIS Conservative government absolutely lacks probity. I don’t think there should be a question of offence there, it would simply be true.

I agree.
Under this completely flawed and undemocratic system, if I have to make a choice from 'the above' it will be for a Party that may mess up the country accidentally rather than the current one that is doing it deliberately to maintain/increase its powers and reward its paymasters.....

 

[Hugo Rune]

“Chancellor Rishi Sunak has asked the PM's independent advisers to review his declaration of interests, saying he is confident it will show he followed the rules.”

A reasonable use of tax payer’s money?

We all know that he and his wife are just on the right side of legality but are in the sewers when it comes to morality and hypocrisy.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Nah, however I would class myself as someone that wouldn’t vote Labour again.

Considering the options are awful I doubt I’ll vote moving forward.

Same here.

Considering the options for you two going forward, I think you've made good decisions