[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[Thunder Bolt]

The first deportee to Rwanda, has disappeared from the Hope Hostel (that we're paying for) already.

 

[The Clamp]

They are indeed (almost) guaranteed to win but there is no sign of a plan. Looking at the 10 policies posted earlier, they are all good sound bites but supported with few numbers or crucially the policies that will produce the funding required. If this was the Tory top 10 policies, they would rightly get ripped to shreds on here.
Not being the Tories will win them the election and that’s a very good thing, but given the likelihood of a large majority they have the opportunity to offer up a coordinated plan that goes into areas that are necessary for the long term good of the country but will be short term unpopular with many. Instead, they are largely offering more of the same but (hopefully) without the corruption or lies.
I’m not angry, just very disappointed.

You are simply incorrect. There is a plan. There are solid policies . And there is a plan to fund and implement.


Stop being so deliberately lazy and do some research.

Here, I’ll spoon feed you one last time.

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Funding-Britains-Future.pdf

 

[Bob!]

You are simply incorrect. There is a plan. There are solid policies . And there is a plan to fund and implement.


Stop being so deliberately lazy and do some research.

Here, I’ll spoon feed you one last time.

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Funding-Britains-Future.pdf

Is that current?
It's a John McDonnell document

 

[jcdenton08]

You are simply incorrect. There is a plan. There are solid policies . And there is a plan to fund and implement.


Stop being so deliberately lazy and do some research.

Here, I’ll spoon feed you one last time.

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Funding-Britains-Future.pdf

I’m not disagreeing with your point per se, but the example you used was a document from almost seven years ago, which talks about numerous points which have been either walked-back or outright scrapped.

I’ll be voting Labour (short of an absolutely insane manifesto, which won’t happen) but they’re playing cards close to chest on lots of issues to be fair. And I don’t blame them. Keep quiet, win comfortably, THEN make policy.

 

[The Clamp]

I’m not disagreeing with your point per se, but the example you used was a document from almost seven years ago, which talks about numerous points which have been either walked-back or outright scrapped.

I’ll be voting Labour (short of an absolutely insane manifesto, which won’t happen) but they’re playing cards close to chest on lots of issues to be fair. And I don’t blame them. Keep quiet, win comfortably, THEN make policy.

Ah. Apologies. My mistake. Should be more observant.

 

[The Clamp]

One thing they have stated, which I believe is already quite widely known is their aim to close tax avoidance loopholes to raise money.

How Will Labour Fund their 2024 Pledges: Tax Avoidance Clampdowns - ChamberUK

How has Labour proposed they will fund their pledges?

chamberuk.com

We shall see.

 

[Randy McNob]

I’m not disagreeing with your point per se, but the example you used was a document from almost seven years ago, which talks about numerous points which have been either walked-back or outright scrapped.

I’ll be voting Labour (short of an absolutely insane manifesto, which won’t happen) but they’re playing cards close to chest on lots of issues to be fair. And I don’t blame them. Keep quiet, win comfortably, THEN make policy.

It seems you are giving credence to the idea that a major political party, virtually given a free pass to form the next government have not even thought about what policies they would introduce once the inevitable transfer of power happens? That Kier Starmer would take the podium after his glorious victory and announce "sorry we didn't have a plan, we will go away and think about what to do now, sorry"

Really?

 

[jcdenton08]

It seems you are giving credence to the idea that a major political party, virtually given a free pass to form the next government have not even thought about what policies they would introduce once the inevitable transfer of power happens? That Kier Starmer would take the podium after his glorious victory and announce "sorry we didn't have a plan, we will go away and think about what to do now, sorry"

Really?

Oh, you again expecting rdodge and the other one to be along shortly

Where did I say any of that? Oh, and it’s Keir Starmer who will be the next PM - not Kier.

Re-read my post big boy!

 

[abc]

You are simply incorrect. There is a plan. There are solid policies . And there is a plan to fund and implement.


Stop being so deliberately lazy and do some research.

Here, I’ll spoon feed you one last time.

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Funding-Britains-Future.pdf

Why do you insist on being so arrogant in your views that you can’t abide anyone having an alternative one? Resorting to insults just compounds.
I do not believe that Labour’s current policy announcements constitutes a ‘plan’ that is going to get the country out of the mess it is in. That is my view. I am not being ‘deliberately lazy’ and I am not ‘simply incorrect’. It is my opinion. You may believe they do but I don’t. Isn’t the point of a thread like this to garner debate?

 

[The Clamp]

Why do you insist on being so arrogant in your views that you can’t abide anyone having an alternative one? Resorting to insults just compounds.
I do not believe that Labour’s current policy announcements constitutes a ‘plan’ that is going to get the country out of the mess it is in. That is my view. I am not being ‘deliberately lazy’ and I am not ‘simply incorrect’. It is my opinion. You may believe they do but I don’t. Isn’t the point of a thread like this to garner debate?

Apologies for the arrogance. Genuinely. You’re right on that.

 

[jcdenton08]

Apologies for the arrogance. Genuinely. You’re right on that.

Classy reply.

Moving on the discussion, I like that the core message that has been communicated is a strong one addressing inequality. Surely this is the number one issue to the majority (usually that term in its clinical sense) of Brits.

 

[abc]

Apologies for the arrogance. Genuinely. You’re right on that.

Really appreciate that

 

[abc]

Classy reply.

Moving on the discussion, I like that the core message that has been communicated is a strong one addressing inequality. Surely this is the number one issue to the majority (usually that term in its clinical sense) of Brits.

I think the intent and this messaging is indeed strong. Agree also agree tackling the extreme level of inequality prevalent now is a top priority. What I am not convinced by is that the genuine desire is accompanied by a sufficiently radical or strong plan to achieve it. This may be, in fairness, that the problems are so deeply imbedded that it is simply going to be a long, hard slog that cannot be turned into a clear plan or it may be that Labour are afraid of being seen as too radical and thus not being elected (as per JC). Either way I will vote labour (or reluctantly LD as the best chance of removing our Tory MP) because I do believe they are our best hope.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It seems you are giving credence to the idea that a major political party, virtually given a free pass to form the next government have not even thought about what policies they would introduce once the inevitable transfer of power happens? That Kier Starmer would take the podium after his glorious victory and announce "sorry we didn't have a plan, we will go away and think about what to do now, sorry"

Really?

I think @jcdenton08 meant 'reveal' the plans after the election.

That's what I would do.

The more the Tories spaff nonsense, the more I'd step back and raise an eyebrow.

 

[TomandJerry]

Drug shortages in England are now at such critical levels that patients are at risk of immediate harm and even death, pharmacists have warned.

The situation is so serious that pharmacists increasingly have to issue “owings” to patients – telling someone that only part of their prescription can be dispensed and asking them to come back for the rest of it later, once the pharmacist has sourced the remainder.


Hundreds of different drugs have become hard or impossible to obtain, according to Community Pharmacy England (CPE), which published the report. Widespread and often long-lasting shortages posed “immediate risks to patient health and wellbeing” and caused distress, it said.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Drug shortages in England are now at such critical levels that patients are at risk of immediate harm and even death, pharmacists have warned.

The situation is so serious that pharmacists increasingly have to issue “owings” to patients – telling someone that only part of their prescription can be dispensed and asking them to come back for the rest of it later, once the pharmacist has sourced the remainder.


Hundreds of different drugs have become hard or impossible to obtain, according to Community Pharmacy England (CPE), which published the report. Widespread and often long-lasting shortages posed “immediate risks to patient health and wellbeing” and caused distress, it said.

It helps if you put the link to the source

CPE, which represents England’s 10,500 community pharmacies, based its findings on a survey of the views of owners of 6,100 pharmacy premises and 2,000 of their staff. It found:

• 79% of pharmacy staff said that medicine shortages were putting patient health at risk.
• 91% of pharmacy owners had seen a “significant increase” in the problem since last year.
• 99% of pharmacy workers found a drug was unavailable at least weekly, and 72% encountered that several times a day.

Medicine shortages in England ‘beyond critical’, pharmacists warn

 

[Audax]

I think the intent and this messaging is indeed strong. Agree also agree tackling the extreme level of inequality prevalent now is a top priority. What I am not convinced by is that the genuine desire is accompanied by a sufficiently radical or strong plan to achieve it. This may be, in fairness, that the problems are so deeply imbedded that it is simply going to be a long, hard slog that cannot be turned into a clear plan or it may be that Labour are afraid of being seen as too radical and thus not being elected (as per JC). Either way I will vote labour (or reluctantly LD as the best chance of removing our Tory MP) because I do believe they are our best hope.

I think @jcdenton08 meant 'reveal' the plans after the election.

That's what I would do.

The more the Tories spaff nonsense, the more I'd step back and raise an eyebrow.

For now, I think we need to give Labour some leeway when it comes to announcing their strategic plans for when they inevitably take over government. For the following reasons:

1. I believe at the current time they have not been granted full access to the data that spells out exactly what they'll have to work with post-election. That puts them in a position where a) they don't really know exactly how deep the problems the Tories have created go, and b) can't do a fully comprehensive costings / funding plan as a result.

2. Policies they have announced have either been co-opted by the Tories (eg windfall tax and others) or undermined by the Tories announcing something very difficult for Labour to reverse that uses the same funding source as a costed Labour policy, thus killing off the Labour policy.

It is point 1 that I think has caused Labour to row back on their £40b green economy policy. Point 2, given recent Tory tactics, is what will cause Labour to hold back any further detailed fully costed policy announcements until a GE is announced and pre-election rules prevents the Tories from undermining them.

I think we just need to be patient. Once a GE is called, I believe we'll see Labour come out the gates hard.

 

[rippleman]

Classy reply.

Moving on the discussion, I like that the core message that has been communicated is a strong one addressing inequality. Surely this is the number one issue to the majority (usually that term in its clinical sense) of Brits.

You mean the "inequality" of admitting ring-wing Tory Elphicke immediately into the Labour Party whilst continuing to suspend Diane Abbot, the country's first ever female, black MP who has been returned by her constituents with huge majorities since 1987. That kind of inequality?

 

[TomandJerry]

A gold medal-winning elite cyclist who is seeking asylum in the UK fears his career will be derailed because he has been told by the Home Office he must move to the Bibby Stockholm barge and cannot take his bike on board.

Mohammad Ganjkhanlou, 26, an Iranian, has won four gold, two silver and six bronze medals in big competitions and has competed in the world championships.

 

[abc]

For now, I think we need to give Labour some leeway when it comes to announcing their strategic plans for when they inevitably take over government. For the following reasons:

1. I believe at the current time they have not been granted full access to the data that spells out exactly what they'll have to work with post-election. That puts them in a position where a) they don't really know exactly how deep the problems the Tories have created go, and b) can't do a fully comprehensive costings / funding plan as a result.

2. Policies they have announced have either been co-opted by the Tories (eg windfall tax and others) or undermined by the Tories announcing something very difficult for Labour to reverse that uses the same funding source as a costed Labour policy, thus killing off the Labour policy.

It is point 1 that I think has caused Labour to row back on their £40b green economy policy. Point 2, given recent Tory tactics, is what will cause Labour to hold back any further detailed fully costed policy announcements until a GE is announced and pre-election rules prevents the Tories from undermining them.

I think we just need to be patient. Once a GE is called, I believe we'll see Labour come out the gates hard.

So in summary you are saying the country is in such an unprecedentedly bad state that Labour won’t know how bad it really is until they are in government.
Sadly, I agree with you.